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Daria Cybulska

27 Jul 2012 27 Jul '12

11:15 a.m.

Dear All, I am planning on ordering Wikimedia UK branded lanyards, polo shirts and notepads to be used at events. If you would like to send across any ideas concerning the design of these, then please do send them here - ideally by 3 August. Polo shirts: - These would be stitched on, so the smaller design the better. I have seen a couple of chapters having the polo shirts with just the Wikimedia... logo in the upper left corner, and that looked quite professional. As for the lanyard: - 4 colour print on one side - Another option would be to only use one colour, which is much cheaper As for the notebook, a cost effective way would be to have: - A5 Wirebound Book with 350gsm Card Cover - Cover printed 4 colour (allowing for Wikimedia UK logo) - 50 insert sheets printed 1 colour both sides The bigger quantity I order, the cheaper the items get, so it is best if the merchandise designed is of general character and not geared towards a specific event. I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts. You can also jot them down here<http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/2012_Activity_Plan/Outreach_merchandis… Many thanks, Daria -- Daria Cybulska - Events Organiser, Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 207 065 0994 +44 7803 505 170 -- Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents. Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited, a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

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HJ Mitchell

27 Jul 27 Jul

12:57 p.m.

Without wishing to prompt an influx of comments about visual identity etc, I think we should be wary of promoting the chapter (not just with merchandise) over the projects which the chapter exists to support. Wikipedia is a much more recognisable brand and the largest and most successful project WMUK supports and thus (imo) makes for the most desirable and attention-grabbing merchandise. Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell ________________________________ From: Daria Cybulska <daria.cybulska(a)wikimedia.org.uk> To: office(a)wikimedia.org.uk; UK Wikimedia mailing list <wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Sent: Friday, 27 July 2012, 12:15 Subject: [Wikimediauk-l] WMUK merchandise Dear All, I am planning on ordering Wikimedia UK branded lanyards, polo shirts and notepads to be used at events. If you would like to send across any ideas concerning the design of these, then please do send them here - ideally by 3 August. Polo shirts: - These would be stitched on, so the smaller design the better. I have seen a couple of chapters having the polo shirts with just the Wikimedia... logo in the upper left corner, and that looked quite professional. As for the lanyard: - 4 colour print on one side - Another option would be to only use one colour, which is much cheaper As for the notebook, a cost effective way would be to have: - A5 Wirebound Book with 350gsm Card Cover - Cover printed 4 colour (allowing for Wikimedia UK logo) - 50 insert sheets printed 1 colour both sides The bigger quantity I order, the cheaper the items get, so it is best if the merchandise designed is of general character and not geared towards a specific event. I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts. You can also jot them down here Many thanks, Daria -- Daria Cybulska - Events Organiser, Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 207 065 0994 +44 7803 505 170 -- Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited, a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

David Gerard

12:59 p.m.

On 27 July 2012 13:57, HJ Mitchell <hjmitchell(a)ymail.com> wrote:

...

We should consider that this isn't merchandise for sale, but giveaway swag - chapters can't sell merchandise (yet), just give it away. (Go visit WMUK and get away without a coffee mug.) - d.

Stevie Benton

1:02 p.m.

Hello all, I hope my comment doesn't count as an influx ;-) I think it's sensible to have co-branding where possible. We do need to promote ourselves as a chapter as much as the projects, in some ways. The mugs that David mentioned (we still have some left if anyone would like one!) are a really good example of this. Thanks, Stevie On 27 July 2012 13:59, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 27 July 2012 13:57, HJ Mitchell <hjmitchell(a)ymail.com> wrote:

Without wishing to prompt an influx of comments about visual identity

etc, I

think we should be wary of promoting the chapter (not just with

merchandise)

over the projects which the chapter exists to support. Wikipedia is a much more recognisable brand and the largest and most successful project WMUK supports and thus (imo) makes for the most

desirable

and attention-grabbing merchandise.

We should consider that this isn't merchandise for sale, but giveaway swag - chapters can't sell merchandise (yet), just give it away. (Go visit WMUK and get away without a coffee mug.) - d. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

-- Stevie Benton Communications Organiser Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 20 7065 0993 / +44 (0) 7803 505 173 @StevieBenton Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited, a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.

HJ Mitchell

1:14 p.m.

A reputation for the chapter is only a means to an end, and that end should be "to promote and support the widest possible public access to, use of and contribution to Open Content of an encyclopaedic or educational nature or of similar utility to the general public, in particular the Open Content supported and provided by Wikimedia Foundation, Inc." but in the majority of circumstances I really don't think it matters if people have never heard of WMUK, because we can fulfil our charitable objectives without the chapter being well known in its own right. Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell ________________________________ From: Stevie Benton <stevie.benton(a)wikimedia.org.uk> To: UK Wikimedia mailing list <wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Sent: Friday, 27 July 2012, 14:02 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] WMUK merchandise Hello all, I hope my comment doesn't count as an influx ;-) I think it's sensible to have co-branding where possible. We do need to promote ourselves as a chapter as much as the projects, in some ways. The mugs that David mentioned (we still have some left if anyone would like one!) are a really good example of this. Thanks, Stevie On 27 July 2012 13:59, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: On 27 July 2012 13:57, HJ Mitchell <hjmitchell(a)ymail.com> wrote:

...

Thomas Morton

1:30 p.m.

On 27 July 2012 14:14, HJ Mitchell <hjmitchell(a)ymail.com> wrote:

...

Mostly I agree with Harry here. There should be things like T-Shirts, Lanyards and so forth saying "Wikimedia UK" for volunteers to wear/use. Anything to be handed out as "swag" etc. should be branded with the project names/logos (Wikipedia, Commons, etc.) Tom

Andy Mabbett

2:48 p.m.

On 27 July 2012 14:02, Stevie Benton <stevie.benton(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

...

I think it's sensible to have co-branding where possible.

Indeed. Perhaps something like "Wikimedia UK supports Wikipedia" or "Wikipedia - supported by Wikimedia UK"?

...

The mugs that David mentioned (we still have some left if anyone would like one!) are a really good example of this.

And I thought the one conferred on me was a special honour! -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

Jon Davies

2:54 p.m.

Our own ale? I can help with the re-cycling. On 27 July 2012 15:48, Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:

...

On 27 July 2012 14:02, Stevie Benton <stevie.benton(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

I think it's sensible to have co-branding where possible.

Indeed. Perhaps something like "Wikimedia UK supports Wikipedia" or "Wikipedia - supported by Wikimedia UK"?

The mugs that David mentioned (we still have some left if anyone would

one!) are a really good example of this.

And I thought the one conferred on me was a special honour! -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

-- *Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513 Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). It is an independent non-profit organization with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents. Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk

Gordon Joly

3:04 p.m.

On 27/07/12 15:54, Jon Davies wrote:

...

Our own ale? I can help with the re-cycling.

I can supply the hops (Fuggles). Gordo

Gordon Joly

3:03 p.m.

On 27/07/12 15:48, Andy Mabbett wrote:

...

Indeed. Perhaps something like "Wikimedia UK supports Wikipedia" or "Wikipedia - supported by Wikimedia UK"?

Wikimedia UK supports Wikipedia and The Commons and Wikimania (all over the place)? Gordo

Deryck Chan

1:25 p.m.

On 27 July 2012 13:59, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 27 July 2012 13:57, HJ Mitchell <hjmitchell(a)ymail.com> wrote:

Without wishing to prompt an influx of comments about visual identity

etc, I

think we should be wary of promoting the chapter (not just with

merchandise)

over the projects which the chapter exists to support. Wikipedia is a much more recognisable brand and the largest and most successful project WMUK supports and thus (imo) makes for the most

desirable

and attention-grabbing merchandise.

We should consider that this isn't merchandise for sale, but giveaway swag - chapters can't sell merchandise (yet), just give it away. (Go visit WMUK and get away without a coffee mug.)

Wait - no one told me I was entitled to a mug when I visited!

Richard Symonds

1:35 p.m.

I think you visited in the pre-mug era... but I know there's at least one mug in Hong Kong somewhere! Harry raises a good point, but there is an issue here that we need to be promoting ourselves within the movement to some degree. We need to be seen as a successful chapter, and a chapter which others want to emulate. Over the past few weeks - thanks in no small part to Monmouth and the other GLAM events - we've achieved that. The reception of WMUK at Wikimania was very, very good - even from the arbitrators I went out drinking with. We also need to make sure that when Wikimedia UK does something fantastic, people actually attribute it to Wikimedia UK, and not the Wikimedia Foundation. Merchandise is only a very small part of that, but if UK volunteers do something fantastic, it should be UK volunteers that get the credit. Having a low public profile for WMUK means that that is less likely to happen. Tom and Harry are broadly right though, I think - 'swag for the public' should be largely project-branded, and 'swag for volunteers to use', should be more Wikimedia-UK branded. Does that make sense? Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992 Disclaimer viewable at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:Email_disclaimer Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk On 27 July 2012 14:25, Deryck Chan <deryckchan(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 27 July 2012 13:59, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On 27 July 2012 13:57, HJ Mitchell <hjmitchell(a)ymail.com> wrote:

Without wishing to prompt an influx of comments about visual identity

etc, I

think we should be wary of promoting the chapter (not just with

merchandise)

over the projects which the chapter exists to support. Wikipedia is a much more recognisable brand and the largest and most successful project WMUK supports and thus (imo) makes for the most

desirable

and attention-grabbing merchandise.

We should consider that this isn't merchandise for sale, but giveaway swag - chapters can't sell merchandise (yet), just give it away. (Go visit WMUK and get away without a coffee mug.)

Wait - no one told me I was entitled to a mug when I visited! _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

David Gerard

1:44 p.m.

On 27 July 2012 14:35, Richard Symonds <richard.symonds(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

...

Tom and Harry are broadly right though, I think - 'swag for the public' should be largely project-branded, and 'swag for volunteers to use', should be more Wikimedia-UK branded. Does that make sense?

It does. Ideally both logos. Though the Wikipedia logo is one colour and the WMUK logo is four. The issue does admit of almost unlimited bikeshedding.[1] - d. [1] http://bikeshed.org

Roger Bamkin

1:49 p.m.

You'll be please to know that Gibrarlarpedia logo is cc by sa On 27 July 2012 15:44, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 27 July 2012 14:35, Richard Symonds <richard.symonds(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

Tom and Harry are broadly right though, I think - 'swag for the public' should be largely project-branded, and 'swag for volunteers to use',

should

be more Wikimedia-UK branded. Does that make sense?

It does. Ideally both logos. Though the Wikipedia logo is one colour and the WMUK logo is four. The issue does admit of almost unlimited bikeshedding.[1] - d. [1] http://bikeshed.org _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

-- Roger Bamkin 01332 702993 0758 2020815 Google+:Victuallers Skype:Victuallers1 Flickr:Victuallers2

Thomas Dalton

3:20 p.m.

On 27 July 2012 13:59, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

We should consider that this isn't merchandise for sale, but giveaway swag - chapters can't sell merchandise (yet), just give it away. (Go visit WMUK and get away without a coffee mug.)

Are you sure about that? I remember Mike Godwin saying repeating at the Chapters Meeting in Berlin in 2009 that the WMF wasn't trying to stop chapters selling t-shirts (he seemed to think that was the only use of the trademarks we were interested in...). I'm not aware of that policy changing. (Whether they can be sold for profit, or just at cost, I'm not sure - there are tax issues if the chapter makes too much profit out of trading activies, anyway.)

David Gerard

3:26 p.m.

On 27 July 2012 16:20, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 27 July 2012 13:59, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

> We should consider that this isn't merchandise for sale, but giveaway > swag - chapters can't sell merchandise (yet), just give it away. (Go > visit WMUK and get away without a coffee mug.)

...

I vaguely recall someone saying the chapter agreement didn't allow it, but I'm sure WMUK would be most pleased for me to be wrong :-) - d.

Michael Peel

4:04 p.m.

On 27 Jul 2012, at 08:26, David Gerard wrote:

...

On 27 July 2012 16:20, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On 27 July 2012 13:59, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> We should consider that this isn't merchandise for sale, but giveaway > swag - chapters can't sell merchandise (yet), just give it away. (Go > visit WMUK and get away without a coffee mug.)

I vaguely recall someone saying the chapter agreement didn't allow it, but I'm sure WMUK would be most pleased for me to be wrong :-)

I think the situation is changing now, particularly with the global Wikimedia shop, and also a number of other chapters (FR, IT, etc.) operating shops. The question is more, is it worthwhile doing and/or pushing for? Is there a market, and sufficient benefit for the projects? (I had a quick chat with James Alexander about providing chapter-branded merchandise through the main Wikimedia shop, which may well be possible in the future.) Thanks, Mike

Andy Mabbett

4:14 p.m.

On 27 July 2012 17:04, Michael Peel <michael.peel(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote: [Of Wikimedia-UK merchandise]

...

The question is more, is it worthwhile doing and/or pushing for? Is there a market, and sufficient benefit for the projects?

The charity of which I'm a trustee, the West Midland Bird Club <http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/> partners with a supplier of on-demand merchandise (see link & pic on WMBC home page). We supply the artwork, they make up shirts, caps and so on (knickers, if you must!) as and when an order is received and supply them direct to the customer, paying us a commission. No overheads, no stock to hold (though that's an option, should we wish to), no running out of women's style before men's. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

Michael Peel

4:19 p.m.

On 27 Jul 2012, at 09:14, Andy Mabbett wrote:

...

On 27 July 2012 17:04, Michael Peel <michael.peel(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote: [Of Wikimedia-UK merchandise]

The question is more, is it worthwhile doing and/or pushing for? Is there a market, and sufficient benefit for the projects?

The downside is that such suppliers are typically lower quality and always much more expensive compared to buying stock in bulk... Thanks, Mike

Andy Mabbett

4:24 p.m.

On 27 July 2012 17:19, Michael Peel <michael.peel(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

...

On 27 Jul 2012, at 09:14, Andy Mabbett wrote:

On 27 July 2012 17:04, Michael Peel <michael.peel(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote: [Of Wikimedia-UK merchandise]

The question is more, is it worthwhile doing and/or pushing for? Is there a market, and sufficient benefit for the projects?

The downside is that such suppliers are typically lower quality and always much more expensive compared to buying stock in bulk...

Perhaps; but in this case the comments received on the quality have been appreciative. With no outlay and far less inconvenience, I wouldn't expect the same amount of profit. Costs are viewable on the supplier's website; I've not made any comparison, -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

Stevie Benton

4:20 p.m.

[offlist] The last sentence, given your knickers comment, is really begging for humorous interpretation... On 27 July 2012 17:14, Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:

...

On 27 July 2012 17:04, Michael Peel <michael.peel(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote: [Of Wikimedia-UK merchandise]

The question is more, is it worthwhile doing and/or pushing for? Is there a market, and sufficient benefit for the projects?

Thomas Dalton

4:38 p.m.

On 27 July 2012 16:26, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

I vaguely recall someone saying the chapter agreement didn't allow it, but I'm sure WMUK would be most pleased for me to be wrong :-)

The chapters agreement doesn't. It falls under the trademark agreement. I'm not sure what WMUK's trademark agreement says. When I was on the board, the "agreement" was just an email exchange between Mike Godwin and me - did that ever get formalised?

Michael Peel

4:40 p.m.

On 27 Jul 2012, at 09:38, Thomas Dalton wrote:

...

On 27 July 2012 16:26, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I vaguely recall someone saying the chapter agreement didn't allow it, but I'm sure WMUK would be most pleased for me to be wrong :-)

We don't have a specific trademark agreement with the WMF. Our use of the trademark falls under the general WMF policy at: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Trademark_Policy Thanks, Mike

Andy Mabbett

2:46 p.m.

On 27 July 2012 12:15, Daria Cybulska <daria.cybulska(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

...

Dear All, I am planning on ordering Wikimedia UK branded lanyards, polo shirts and notepads to be used at events.

I get a lanyard - effectively single-use - at almost every event, conference and trade show I go to. Please can we consider less throw-away, and thus more environmentally-friendly alternatives? I confess I have no idea what such alternatives might be. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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participants (13)

Andy Mabbett
Daria Cybulska
David Gerard
Deryck Chan
Gordon Joly
HJ Mitchell
Jon Davies
Michael Peel
Richard Symonds
Roger Bamkin
Stevie Benton
Thomas Dalton
Thomas Morton