On Fri 24 Aug, 2018, 1:22 AM Asaf Bartov,
<abartov(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
Dear Rahul,
It's been 10 days since I've explicitly invited you to respond yourself and to
take responsibility for this -- whether a mistake or a misunderstanding. It would be good
if you could make time to do so. If you are unable to put in the time, please at least
drop a line acknowledging you intend to, and suggest a date by which you'd be able to
respond.
It seems to me people have been trying to assume good faith despite concerns about the
way this was handled, but this assumption of good faith should not be abused indefinitely.
WMIN's EC and its president should be accountable to the membership and the broader
communities it exists to support. You agreed with this statement when I made it in our
meeting in Mumbai last year. Do please show you meant it.
Thank you,
A.
On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 11:04 PM Asaf Bartov
<abartov(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
Perhaps also helpful would be to hear some response from Mr. Deshmukh himself.
Rahul, I think the concerns raised here at least merit your attention, and it's been
two weeks. I encourage you to show up and discuss the concerns -- ideally, with a
forthright description of what did and didn't happen around your travel to Wikimania,
and with a forward-looking perspective of what might change to prevent such concerns in
the future.
Thank you.
A.
> On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 7:06 AM, Bodhisattwa Mandal
<bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Yohann,
>
> As I and Satdeep requested, it would be great if you share the invitation letter with
all of us, so that we can know who invited WMIN president to attend the meeting.
>
> Thanks,
> Bodhisattwa
>
>
>> On Wed, 8 Aug 2018, 14:58 Bodhisattwa Mandal, <bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>> Hi Yohann,
>>
>> Thanks for the detailed reply. Much appreciated.
>>
>> So, to summarize your mail, WMIN president got written invitation to speak in the
informal meeting of chairpersons during Wikimania and WMIN officially requested CIS-A2K to
fund him to attend the meeting without depriving any Wikimedian in waiting list for
scholarship and CIS-A2K funded him to attend the entire Wikimania. Right? So, according to
WMIN, this was a valid request from WMIN to CIS-A2K, I presume, as you are defending about
what WMIN did.
>>
>> Assuming good faith, I am believing all your words. Still, I don't
understand, why only 1 volunteer in the waiting list attended the conference and next 2 in
the queue were not funded. I am not talking about Jayanta Nath and Aliva Sahoo, they both
declined, I am talking about the next 2 people in the queue.
>>
>> Also, can you please share the letter of invitation, so that we know, who sent
the letter and everything becomes transparent.
>>
>> By the way, I never said, chairpersons meeting was any random meeting, I said it
was informal meeting, like stewards meeting, asian meeting etc. Informal means which is
not related to Wikimania official program, there is a difference between random and
informal.
>>
>> Echoing Manavpreet's valid query, can a Wikimedia volunteer with no
attachment to the chapter get similar special treatment of getting full funds to attend
Wikimania even if he/she doesn't get a Wikimania scholarship but his/her presentation
is selected and/or he/she gets official invitation to speak in an informal meeting during
Wikimania. Now, from your answer, I hope there is no doubt about that volunteers will
receive such special treatment, because after all, the chapter does not distinguish
between board members and the volunteer community and we have a prior example of WMIN
president to cite. That is a great news for the volunteer community as it opens up new
opportunity for the communities to participate in the conference. Alas! this we didn't
knew earlier, we could have sent more Wikimedians this year, but it's ok, the
community will be informed for next year and I hope, more such requests will be sent to
WMIN and CIS-A2K from volunteers in future. Of course, we will keep everything open and
transparent, unlike this time.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Bodhisattwa
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, 8 Aug 2018, 12:42 Yohann Thomas, <yohannvt(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dear Bodhi
>>>
>>> I still feel, you haven't read my email word to word. I would request you
to go by the 24 hr email rule (if not more).. which I personally do many times.
>>>
>>> Pardon my grammar & also my line to line reply, as I'm relying on my
phone.. Since I'm traveling..
>>>
>>> I will again try to explain point wise (where ever possible) & try my
best to clear all doubts.
>>>
>>> 1) Mr Rahul Deshmukh, did not visit Wikimania, on scholarship, or to simply
attend a random meeting. He was invited to be one of the speakers. You can find this on
the agenda of it, during Wikimania.. followed by notes which carry a description. The
‘Conflict Resolution’ theme on which he was a speaker. This is generally a very long
topic, on which Wikimedia Affiliates intends to discuss and deliberate over a period of
time. This theme would be subsequently carried forward in upcoming Chairpersons Meetup as
well, as mentioned on the Meta.
>>>
>>> If your memory serves you right.. During the Wiki Conference India 2016,
where you were also one of the organizers (& the both of us deliberated on various
topics quite extensively) , several community members who had not applied for the
scholarship but had later approached CIS-A2K for the same were awarded appropriately.
>>>
>>> CIS-A2K had later informed the community about this decision.
>>>
>>> In good faith, we assumed that, CIS-A2K did not inform the community without
having any specific interest in the exercise. Wikimedia India would also like to place on
record, that it could have initiated the process of informing on its own. Wikimedia India
would like to put on record, in times to come not only it would inform the community but
also engage with its community members on decision making for such exercises.
>>>
>>> 2) Mr Rahul deshmukh had received an on record written invitation to attend
the meeting and be a speaker on ‘Conflict Resolution’. The above said invitation was shown
to CIS-A2K, when requesting them for travel assistance.
>>>
>>> I have not stated anywhere that he received an invitation during the
Chairpersons meeting at WMCON18. He had attended Wikimedia Conference 2018 & in it had
participated in the movement strategy discussion. It was during the movement strategy
discussion that he received the invitation.
>>>
>>> 3) The chapter has full faith and belief in all its board members in both,
individual and collective levels. This invitation was to the particular individual based
on his expertise in the chapter and in the movement. Chapter has never considered any of
its board members unfit to represent it. Personally, I feel Bodhi, it is very unfair on
your part, to even make such allegation that the chapter would even, consider such a
scenario. A well wisher of the chapter would never make such comments.
>>>
>>> 4) The Chapter is not of an opinion that the community members should be
deprived of scholarship. Wikimedia India would like to put emphasis that during its grant
tenure, Wikimedia India used to provide two sponsorship to its community members & we
value the joy, which a volunteer gets, when he is informed that, he is going to
Wikimania.
>>>
>>> However, in this scenario , none was deprived on anything. As I have
repeatedly said, Mr Rahul Deshmukh was invited to attend and give a talk on conflict
resolution. Since it was about the affiliates & partnerships amongst them, the chapter
approached another affiliate CIS-A2K and CCing the chapter board members
>>>
>>> 5) The Chapter does not make any distinction between its board members and
its community members. Unlike CIS-A2K, Wikimedia India board members are unpaid
volunteers, similar to its community members, who give their time & effort towards the
community.
>>>
>>> To Sum the entire email, the chapter has made a valuable learning, of
engaging the community in a more effective way in the future.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Yohann Thomas
>>> Secretary
>>> Wikimedia India
>>>
>>> P.S. - Neither your previous email, or any other email can affect our
friendship, Bodhi .Our passion & commitment towards the movement, is what binds us :)
>>>
>>> --------
>>>> On Sun 5 Aug, 2018, 12:27 Bodhisattwa Mandal,
<bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Yohann,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your reply, much appreciated.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have read your previous e-mail very carefully, without missing a single
word.
>>>>
>>>> My question still stands. Many apologies, if I have not been able to make
it clear in my previous mails, so I am adding some more perspective.
>>>>
>>>> 1) Chairpersons meeting in Wikimania is informal. It's not related to
the main program of Wikimania. For example, like many other informal meetups, there
happens to be a steward meetup every year in Wikimania. Now, if one steward, who have not
received scholarship, is invited in the meetup, then he/she will have to spend his own
money to attend the meeting. Same principle lies here, participation for chairpersons
meetup is not eligibility criteria to gain a scholarship as it is an informal meetup. Can
you please provide some documentation, where it is written that scholarship would be
provided to attend informal meetups? Because if that is true, everyone will find someone
to invite themselves to attend informal meetups in Wikimania and ask for scholarship from
WMIN from next year.
>>>>
>>>> 2) I have checked and rechecked the minute[1] and event page[2] of
chairpersons meeting of Wikimedia Conference, Berlin. Nowhere there is a proof that he has
attended that meeting. So, I have doubt that he was invited at all because there is no
point to invite someone who didn't attend the meeting previously even he was present
there. Can you provide the documentation of his invitation?
>>>>
>>>> [1]
https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/chairpersons_meeting_April_20%2C_2018
>>>> [2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_April_20_2018
>>>>
>>>> 3) As I said earlier, even if I believe that he was invited, already
there were 2 EC members (Viswa and Krishna) present in Wikimania who went there with full
scholarship. You can check that president's participation is not at all mandatory. Why
WMIN didn't told them to attend the informal meeting of chairpersons on behalf of the
Chapter? Are they considered unfit or incapable to attend the meeting, if yes, why so?
>>>>
>>>> 4) Lastly, Wikimania and Wikimedia Conference are not the same. Whereas
Wikimedia Conference is for affiliates, Wikimania is for volunteers. So, sending an
affiliate representative with the donation money, depriving a Wikimedia volunteer who was
in the waiting list and supposed to attend the conference, is utter misuse of power and
money. Can you please explain that?
>>>>
>>>> 5) Lastly, did WMIN inform the volunteer who was supposed to attend the
conference, that Rahul Desmukh has been sent instead of him, because Rahul is the
president of WMIN whereas he is just a volunteer?
>>>>
>>>> I am sure, you will read my e-mail carefully as I did to yours. Also, I
hope this mail won't affect the friendship between us and you won't take it
personally.
>>>>
>>>> Waiting for your detailed reply,
>>>>
>>>> Bodhisattwa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 5 Aug 2018, 11:08 Yohann Thomas, <yohannvt(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>> (sorry for the delay, just following the 24hrs email rule)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Bodhi
>>>>>
>>>>> I would request you to please read my email completely. If you want,
I can give you an excerpt of my email, which should answer your questions.
>>>>>
>>>>> //In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier
attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then
subsequently was invited to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's meeting at
Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below.
>>>>>
>>>>>
https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2…
>>>>>
>>>>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund
its trip & they accepted his proposal. //
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Yohann Thomas
>>>>> Secretary
>>>>> Wikimedia India
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri 3 Aug, 2018, 18:33 Bodhisattwa Mandal,
<bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Yohann,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for your mail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you check the link of chairperson's meeting, you can see,
that many participants were not president of any affiliates, they attended the meeting on
behalf of the president. For example, Nahid Sultan attended the meeting on behalf of
Wikipedia Bangladesh (WMBD) as the General Secretary of WMBD. It is not mandatory to join
the meeting as a President of any affiliates, usually, if one representative of an
affiliate is present in that conference, he can represent the affiliate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In Wikimania 2018, 2 EC members, Viswa Prabha and Krishna
Chaitanya Velaga, were present and one of them could have attended the meeting on behalf
of WMIN. Can you please explain, why WMIN decided to spend a huge amount of donation money
to send WMIN president to attend a meeting, where his presence is not at all mandatory.
Does WMIN consider these two members unfit to attend such meeting?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Waiting for your reply,
>>>>>> Bodhisattwa
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3 Aug 2018 6:05 pm, "Yohann Thomas"
<yohannvt(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Dear Bodhi & other community members
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First of all, I would apologise for the delay in reply. Wikimedia
India is run by 7 board members(as you are already aware) & any discussion on any
topic, requires inputs from all of them.. Since all are unpaid volunteers & have their
own professional lives apart from Wikimedia India, there was a delay in drafting a reply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As it is a well known fact, Wikimedia India is a volunteer run
organisation. There are board members, who discharge their duties towards the chapter, as
well as serve their regional communities (as well as user groups) in their volunteer
roles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another well known fact is that, Wikimedia India still isn't
financially independent & is still dependent on external funding which is fraught with
regulatory hurdles, including obstacles related to FCRA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having said that, many community members juggle their different
roles in community, affiliates, committees & in personal & professional roles to
attend different conferences run by the Wikimedia & its volunteers around the world.
>>>>>> In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier
attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then
subsequently was invited to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's meeting at
Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2…
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to
fund its trip & they accepted his proposal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Going a little off topic & concluding my email, I would
really want to appreciate & acknowledge the work done by Abhinav on & offline in
relation to the chapter. Eventhough Abhinav, prematurely left the chapter before his term
expired, he still continues to support the chapter on different issues, inspite of us
still battling with all our regulatory hurdles. I wish there were more such vocal well
wishers, when the chapter is going through a difficult time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Yohann Thomas
>>>>>> Secretary
>>>>>> Wikimedia India
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>> On Fri 27 Jul, 2018, 12:32 Bodhisattwa Mandal,
<bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> WMIN chapter president Rahul Deshmukh attended Wikimania 2018
in Cape Town without being selected for any type of scholarship. My question is why was he
sent to the conference depriving other community members from India who were in the
waiting list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He spoke in the informal chairpersons' meetup for few
minutes. The meeting doesn't require president of the organization's presence, and
already there were 2 EC member of WMIN present, who could have attended the meeting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To me, this is utter misuse of power and abuse of donation
money.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Bodhisattwa
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
>>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences
visit
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>>>>>>
>
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--
Asaf Bartov
Wikimedia Foundation
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all
knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
https://donate.wikimedia.org
--
Asaf Bartov
Wikimedia Foundation
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all
knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
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