The next step to getting Wikimedia Canada up and running is finishing our
Statement of Purpose. I have altered and added what Wiki UK has to what we
had before.http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Proposed_by-laws#Sta…
Our main justification for charity status will be "advancement of
education". The purpose also include aspects of "research in a recognized
field of knowledge" and "providing and maintaining museums and public art
galleries". If all could comment it would be appreciated. Once we agree
one things I will use this to apply for charity status with the CRA.
--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, B.Sc.
I am willing to take care of the administration. Currently I have two for
profit corporations and dealing with the books of a none profit will not be
much more work.
I spoke with the CRA and have also read elsewhere that one can apply for
charity status either before or after incorporation. I know that for
donations from corporations charity status is not needed as they can just
write off the expense. It is useful for donations from individuals however.
The purpose put forth for the charity application needs to be the same as
the one used for incorporation. It is easier to get a purpose approved
first and than use that to incorporate rather than incorporate with a
statement of purpose and have it refused by the CRA, needing to than change
the purpose of the corporation.
One does not need to either incorporate or get charity status. We as an
organization can just do stuff. Doing the previous two tasks however
increases the legitimacy of our organization. Wikimedia Canada can do many
things. I am planning on using Wikimedia Canada to promote the use of
Wikipedia by Universities / Medical Schools. Hope to speak at some medical
conferences regarding Wikiproject Medicine in the next year. Many other
uses however are possible.
--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, B.Sc.
I strongly supoprt the idea that we should get *something* set up, and a non-profit corporation seems to be the easiest to achieve. From what I've heard, lack of charity status will not signifcantly dissuade people from donating. Lets get something set up so people can join (and donate) to something definate.
(Seperate note: while I would very much like to contribute to the chapter's activites, I'm not putting myself forward for any formal roles because I'm currently in Canada on a very restrictive work permit... the last thing I need is for some over-zealous immigration official to take a narrow view of things and use it as a reason to refuse my permament residency application.)
Tom(pw)
___
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:23:34 -0400
> From: P Lahiry <plahiry(a)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-Canada] Next step
> To: Wikimedia Canada planning list <wikimedia-ca(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTimICap758nzl2zQgff-Qcmajg66Q0x-80NPYqB_(a)mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> A couple of things I'd like to say,
>
> I've watched this mailing list be hung up on charitable status. And I don't
> see why it's of such huge concern. Yes, Canadians currently can't get tax
> receipts when they donate to wikipedia. Is that why we need to be a charity?
> If so, I've been on the mailing list since the beginning of this year and I
> have yet to see anyone say that. If that's the focus, you need to have
> documentation from WMF on what the costs are for providing canadian access
> to wikipedia and other WMF directives, and then use that as a basis to
> collect donations from Canadians. Then only if the charity decides to, does
> the money flow back to WMF. That's how it would need to work.
>
> But a non-charity corporation can still receive donated funds. They just
> can't issue tax receipts. If your donor is the government or a very large
> corporation, it isn't that big an issue. A non-profit I work with hasn't
> bothered becoming a charity because of just that. We will be changing it
> fairly soon to open up the donor list but there's no urgency to it.
>
> While charitable status can be granted to non-corporations it's not an easy
> task. From what I know, they are designated as charitable trusts and so
> require a declaration of trust. Some of the religious organizations and
> foundations do this in order to "tweak" the governance to their
> requirements. It is always easier to just incorporate and put a charitable
> head on the corporation unless there's a strong overriding interest. If the
> CRA has said otherwise, I'm not going to go against them on what they've
> stated but I would strongly recommend that someone doublecheck the CRA on
> that. Also if at some point a charitable non-corp decides to incorporate it
> will need further approval from the CRA.
>
> On the issue regarding Corporations Act, Canada - I've asked this before but
> why is there such a focus on the federal act? You can easily incorporate
> under one of the provincial statutes. In fact, the federal act is almost
> dead-on to the Ontario Corporations Act. There's been a focus on keeping it
> Canadian but this type of minute attention is unnecessary. There's no reason
> why a corporation can't be incorporated provincially and act nationwide and
> in the interests of all Canadians with all languages in mind. That's what
> most charities have been doing. Why are we trying to do something different?
> Ontario, for good or for bad, has had the most experience with a wide range
> of profit and non-profit corporations. Hence their legislation is the most
> current. It's the same reason why most corporations in the US are based out
> of Delaware.
>
> I would think the first real issue is the manpower. Are there enough people
> with enough time to actually get something going? You also need to find
> someone or someones to actually bear the administrative burden of running
> this. Is there anyone prepared to do that? I know I can help but I don't
> have a whole lot of time to volunteer. And I'm pretty sure most people are
> in the same boat.
>
> I forget who it was, but someone on the list mentioned that wikimedia
> australia started off (and maybe still is) a non-profit corp. And that's
> exactly how I personally envisioned it. Collect enough funds from interested
> people to incorporate, get it started now and get the kinks out of the
> system. There will be problems with staffing, direction (definitely that)
> and people. Once that's done chase the charitable vision. Right now it seems
> people are torn between inaction and chasing the dream.
>
> I'm not trying to aggravate anyone but these are my thoughts.
>
> Jit
>
_________________________________________________________________
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/197222280/direct/01/
Do you have a story that started on Hotmail? Tell us now
Yes if you read the charities status application form at CRA it says that
one does not need to be incorporated to get status as a charity. One does
however need a statement of purpose which I see as our next step.
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/chrts/chrts-menu-eng.html
We need to settle on something and submit it to the CRA. It they approve it
we can than use this statement in incorporation. If they do not approve our
Statement of Purpose we can than adjust it to something that is acceptable.
If people can look at it and makes suggestions as I would like to submit
this paper work in a week.
James Heilman
On 21 June 2010 06:47, P Lahiry <plahiry(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Yea both can be independently pursued. But I'm not sure how they proposed
> you take wikimedia canada to become charitable without a corporation. Did
> they clarify on that?
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 8:42 AM, James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I spoke with the CRA about setting up a non profit. The person I spoke to
>> recommended that we apply for charitable status before we incorporate and
>> that incorporation is not needed to apply for charitable status. Thus if
>> out Statement of Purpose is not sufficient we can change it before we
>> incorporate.
>>
>> James Heilman
>>
>>
>> On 21 June 2010 06:33, P Lahiry <plahiry(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The Incorporation form is located at
>>>
>>> http://www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/ssb/forms/ssbforms.nsf/FormDetail?openfo…
>>>
>>> The non-incorp handbook for ontario corps is located at
>>> http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/family/pgt/nfpinc/
>>> The appendices have suggested examples for charitable objects.
>>>
>>> As we discussed, it's probably best to design the object of the corp
>>> around something charitable.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 1:45 PM, <plahiry(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm an ont. lawyer but other than advising on quebec law it doesn't make
>>>> a difference.
>>>> My french is abysmal so I won't even dare to help there.
>>>> As for applications, I'm almost positive it's in the service ontario
>>>> website. I'm on a bb right now but I'll double check when I get near a
>>>> computer.
>>>>
>>>> The PGT area of the ontario ministry of the attorney general has
>>>> examples of sample objects but I'm not sure if has by-laws. I can gather
>>>> some if need be for that purpose. There needs to be some discussion on that
>>>> as well to be honest.
>>>>
>>>> As for time for incorporation, I would say a month.
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com>
>>>> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:25:13
>>>> To: P Lahiry<plahiry(a)gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-Canada] Finishing the creation of Wikimedia
>>>> Canada
>>>>
>>>> Okay. That sounds good. I do agree that being able to wave the
>>>> auditor requirement is a huge plus. We will go in that direction. I
>>>> have a friend who is a corporate lawyer out of Edmonton who is going
>>>> to join us. I am not sure if he is familiar with Ontario law /
>>>> regulations? Are you?
>>>>
>>>> I have another friend who will do the translation to French for us. I
>>>> think we should at least try to be bilingual. My French is enough to
>>>> get by but not sufficient to do legal work. Unless of course you are
>>>> fluent? Can you send me a link for the site through which we apply?
>>>> Also is there an example set of by laws for a non profit in Ontario
>>>> that we can base our guidelines off of? How long does think take in
>>>> Ontario BTW.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On 16 June 2010 11:11, P Lahiry <plahiry(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > Incorporation doesn't have to necessarily equate to being a
>>>> > nationwide/provincial organization.A non-profit corp I'm helping with
>>>> (Song
>>>> > for Africa) is based out of Manitoba but has most of its events
>>>> nationwide.
>>>> > No one should see a difference publicly.
>>>> >
>>>> > The old legislation is pretty bad. It was designed for an older time
>>>> when
>>>> > doing something like that was more of a handoff for assets controlled
>>>> or
>>>> > funded by the government to a self-reliant entity. Museums, libraries
>>>> etc
>>>> > etc. So it is a lot more cumbersome.
>>>> >
>>>> > I should point out that the new federal legislation mimics the ontario
>>>> > legislation very closely. The big thing I can think of that both the
>>>> new and
>>>> > ontario one give is that you don't have to submit audited financials
>>>> if the
>>>> > revenue of the corp is under a limit (offhand I think it's $100,000
>>>> but I
>>>> > can't remember). The old one does.
>>>> >
>>>> > Unless there's an auditor willing to provide some free service for the
>>>> > financials it's pretty hard for any corp to start up with that kind of
>>>> > requirement.
>>>> >
>>>> > That's not to dissuade you from incorporating under the old
>>>> legislation but
>>>> > it's a pretty big concern if the new legislation takes its sweet time
>>>> to
>>>> > develop.
>>>> >
>>>> > Language-wise, all legislation (outside of Quebec) is fine with using
>>>> either
>>>> > language. Constitutional requirement.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 12:54 PM, James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Yes that may work.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Are there any significant differences between the old and new
>>>> >> legislations such that there would be a big advantage to being under
>>>> >> the new legislation? What differece does it make if we are under old
>>>> >> legislation? For media purposes and for the issues of language ( ie
>>>> >> French vs English ) starting as a federal organization would be
>>>> better
>>>> >> for the press and possibly unity. We already have Wikimedia Quebec
>>>> >> attempting to start.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Wikimedia which is part of our name is already protect by Wikimedia
>>>> >> Inc in the States and can only be used with permission thus concerns
>>>> >> of naming I agree is not a big deal.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> James Heilman
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 16 June 2010 10:43, P Lahiry <plahiry(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> > You might want to consider the provincial act for non-profits. It
>>>> should
>>>> >> > be
>>>> >> > a lot faster (more so since it won't be starting off as a charity
>>>> from
>>>> >> > the
>>>> >> > getgo). It gives the same rights and privileges as the new canadian
>>>> one.
>>>> >> > The
>>>> >> > only two issues are -
>>>> >> > 1) Has to be hq'd in Ontario (but that can be easily bypassed using
>>>> a
>>>> >> > proxy)
>>>> >> > 2) Name will be protected in Ontario only. Again not a very big
>>>> deal
>>>> >> > since
>>>> >> > there are other ways of protecting the name.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Once the new federal legislation is properly setup, the corp can
>>>> decide
>>>> >> > whether it wants to continue into it.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 12:29 PM, James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com>
>>>> >> > wrote:
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Thanks
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Yes my opinion is that one does not wait for legislation. You
>>>> never
>>>> >> >> know when and if it is going to pass or even if it is going to
>>>> pass.
>>>> >> >> I will be using the list more as time goes own. I hear it takes 6
>>>> to
>>>> >> >> 18 months for the paperwork to go through for a non profit once
>>>> >> >> submitted. If one is based on the old laws they basically let you
>>>> >> >> grandfather in most of the time so I am not sure why it would
>>>> matter?
>>>> >> >> Anyway will do some more work on it over the next couple of days.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> James Heilman
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> On 16 June 2010 10:18, P Lahiry <plahiry(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >> > Ok, let me know if you need another hand. I'm a corporate lawyer
>>>> and
>>>> >> >> > I
>>>> >> >> > gave
>>>> >> >> > up trying to help after all the talk about this need to
>>>> incorporate
>>>> >> >> > under
>>>> >> >> > the new and upcoming canadian non-profit act. But if a group
>>>> outside
>>>> >> >> > the
>>>> >> >> > list can get this going then great.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 12:14 PM, James Heilman <
>>>> jmh649(a)gmail.com>
>>>> >> >> > wrote:
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> Yes about 7 people.
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> That will be enough to get Wikimedia Canada up and running.
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> James Heilman
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> On 16 June 2010 06:15, P Lahiry <plahiry(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >> >> > Hi James,
>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >> > Did anyone reply back? The mailing list hasn't said much.
>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >> > On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 4:17 PM, James Heilman <
>>>> jmh649(a)gmail.com>
>>>> >> >> >> > wrote:
>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> >> I am attempting to finish the process of creating Wikimedia
>>>> >> >> >> >> Canada.
>>>> >> >> >> >> I
>>>> >> >> >> >> have a freind who is a corporate lawyer who has expressed
>>>> >> >> >> >> interest
>>>> >> >> >> >> in
>>>> >> >> >> >> joining us. By the looks of it we need to recreate the
>>>> steering
>>>> >> >> >> >> committee.
>>>> >> >> >> >> If people who are interested can add their name here
>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Steering_Committee
>>>> >> >> >> >> and
>>>> >> >> >> >> send
>>>> >> >> >> >> me their email address to make sharing of documents easier.
>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> >> --
>>>> >> >> >> >> James Heilman
>>>> >> >> >> >> MD, CCFP-EM, B.Sc.
>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________
>>>> >> >> >> >> Wikimedia-ca mailing list
>>>> >> >> >> >> Wikimedia-ca(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> >> >> >> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-ca
>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> --
>>>> >> >> >> James Heilman
>>>> >> >> >> MD, CCFP-EM, B.Sc.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> --
>>>> >> >> James Heilman
>>>> >> >> MD, CCFP-EM, B.Sc.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> James Heilman
>>>> >> MD, CCFP-EM, B.Sc.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> James Heilman
>>>> MD, CCFP-EM, B.Sc.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> James Heilman
>> MD, CCFP-EM, B.Sc.
>>
>>
>>
>
--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, B.Sc.
I am attempting to finish the process of creating Wikimedia Canada. I have
a freind who is a corporate lawyer who has expressed interest in joining
us. By the looks of it we need to recreate the steering committee. If
people who are interested can add their name here
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Steering_Committee and send
me their email address to make sharing of documents easier.
--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, B.Sc.