New subject: [Wikijournal-en] Thematic organization

28 Feb 2017

I don't see what kind of vulnerability a deal like this would confer to us.
In any case, it doesn't seem harmful to ask for a price, so I now did at
his page at https://en.wikijournal.org/wiki/Talk:WikiJournal

On a side note, I'd like to welcome Felipe Schenone to our WikiJournal
Council
<https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/WikiJournal/WikiJournal_User_Group#WikiJournal_Council>
(a group that still doesn't have any official status, but may soon have as
we push WikiJournal towards becoming a thematic organization
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_thematic_organizations>).

Best regards,

Mikael

On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 9:25 PM, Gwinyai Masukume &lt;parturitions(a)gmail.com&gt;
wrote:

...
  Hi All,

 I'm a little concerned about recent happenings. The domain wikijournal.org
 seemed to be inactive when the vote was done (now there's talk of hundreds
 of dollars). In my own view, a merger is off the table because the
 underlying philosophies are fundamentally different. In addition, we do not
 need that domain to function and using Wikimedia foundation funds to
 purchase domains opens us up to all sorts of vulnerability. Wikijournal of
 xx is unique enough in my view. I propose option 3, continuing as usual.

 Kindest regards,
 Gwinyai

 Apologies for brevity and typos - sent from mobile

 On 28 Feb 2017 20:05, "Mikael Häggström" &lt;editor.in.chief(a)wikijmed.org&gt;
 wrote:

 Hi all,

 Unfortunately, I don't find those 200 Russian pages at wikijournal.ru to
 fulfill our vision of a peer reviewed scientific journal, so I would oppose
 a merge. I agree we can ask him about what price he would be willing to
 have for the wikijournal.org domain. He could still continue to use the
 Russian wikijournal.ru domain which he previously used to redirect to the
 Russian site. It would never be worth the effort for us to secure every
 national version of the wikijournal domain.

 Best regards,

 Mikael

 On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 7:37 PM, Diptanshu Das &lt;das.diptanshu(a)gmail.com&gt;
 wrote:

  Wikijournal.org's tagline reads: Free,
independent, international online
 magazine
 Wikimag.org is available. https://domainr.com/wikimag.org?q=wikimag
 We could insist (request) to Philip that he migrates to this domain.
 Perhaps this is more applicable for the purpose they intend to use it for.

 Regards
 Diptanshu

 Please do not print this e-mail unless you really need to.

 On 28 February 2017 at 23:16, Diptanshu Das &lt;das.diptanshu(a)gmail.com&gt;
 wrote:

  This is indeed a very crucial discussion. At some
stage we should take
 it on wiki. It is also important to hear more and more people speak on this.

 I have checked the russian site. The translated version can be found
 here:
 https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr
 ev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fru.wikijournal.org%2Fwiki%2F
 Заглавная_страница&edit-text=&act=url

 My view is that we should ask Philip to name his price. Apart from that
 we should help him to relocate to another domain with the 200 or so
 articles that he has. We also need to reassure him that the relocated site
 would continue to earn equal revenue after an initial dip and that we would
 help in redirecting traffic to his new domain wherever applicable.

 I would not support a name change of our journal at this stage.

 Regards
 Diptanshu

 Please do not print this e-mail unless you really need to.

 On 28 February 2017 at 19:08, Felipe Schenone &lt;schenonef(a)gmail.com&gt;
 wrote:

  I had a long talk with Philip, the owner of
wikijournal.org

 He has worked on the project for 4 years, has 200 articles, 600 page
 views per day and makes a dollar a day with advertising. He will NOT accept
 to sell his domain for 300 dollars, it makes no sense.

 Also, I should mention that his main language is Russian, so a merge
 with it would give us a Russian version of the project, which is something
 to aim for if we want the project to grow.

 I think that there are three possible ways to go:
 1. Seek a merge
 2. Rename the project and secure the relevant .org domain from the
 beginning
 3. Do nothing, keep developing WikiJournal on Wikiversity and see what
 time brings

 If we want a merge, I seriously think we should ask Philip to name his
 price and include that into the grant request, rather than offering him a
 couple hundred dollars as if his work and time count for nothing. He is
 currently well predisposed towards a merge, largely because I approached
 him with respect for his work, so please don't screw it. A good
 predisposition will lead him to ask a reasonable price, and will also keep
 him active in the project after the merge.

 So what do you think? Should I ask what is his price?

 Kind regards,

 On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 11:40 PM Diptanshu Das &lt;das.diptanshu(a)gmail.com&gt;
 wrote:

 I would favour starting a rapid grant request at the earliest. Prior to
 our adoption of the name "WikiJournal" the present owner of the domain
 WikiJournal.org was planning not to renew it. Mikael's communication had
 confirmed the same. But the renewed interest in the name somehow got him
 interested again, perhaps not for an independent project but for some
 unstated impending gain. In such a case a direct monetary offer as well as
 a trademark application seems essential.

 Regards
 Diptanshu
 On 27-Feb-2017 1:43 AM, "Thomas Shafee" &lt;thomas.shafee(a)gmail.com&gt;
 wrote:

 I'd support a buy-out of the WikiJournal domain. The existing project
 there is almost empty and has barely been updated. A google search for
 "WikiJournal" finds us before them. And "Wikijournal of X" finds the
 relevant pages as first hits.

 I think that becoming the best known Wikijournal is more impedance than
 being the only. Similarly, as we grow, we will overtake the "wiki journal
 club" in Google pagerank prominence.

 The WMF seemed approve of the previous grant, so I think that a new
 rapid grant would be a good idea. It achieves very clear outcomes, is low
 cost, and works towards a larger goal of solidifying the WikiJournals (med
 and sci) that address content quality issues they're consistently
 interested in.

 I'll happily help out writing the grant if we go ahead (will be most
 free late March).
 Thomas

 On 26 Feb 2017 04:09, "Michaël Laurent" &lt;michael.laurent(a)gmail.com&gt;
 wrote:

 Hi Daniel,

 Thanks for sharing your thoughts, if more people would do so we would
 advance faster imho.

 I think that having the most logical name and perhaps ask Philip to
 donate the domain like you say, is better than a completely novel name
 which is less easily understood.

 But I'd love to hear more from others.

 BW Michaël

 Op 26 feb. 2017 12:12 schreef "Gwinyai Masukume" <
 parturitions(a)gmail.com&gt;gt;:

 Hi All,

 If I'm not mistaken a rapid grant can be applied for at a moments
 notice (rather than wait for ~one year)? In my view the sooner these issues
 are attended to the better.

 Kindest regards,
 Gwinyai

 Apologies for brevity and typos - sent from mobile.

 On 26 Feb 2017 10:17, "Diptanshu Das" &lt;das.diptanshu(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

 Dear All

 I would like to back Mikael. I also think that inclusion of $300 for
 the domain and $200 for the trademark are justified. As of now I would not
 be worried about the co-existence of another WikiJournal. However, I feel
 that our  tagline (or something similar) should contain something to
 distinguish among the two.

 Regards
 Diptanshu Das

 Please do not print this e-mail unless you really need to.

 On 26 February 2017 at 15:25, James Heilman &lt;jmh649(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

 Having the same name is not a huge issue. For example there are three
 medical journals called "Open Medicine" (one in Canada, one in Europe, and
 one in the Arabic peninsula). There are also more than a dozen cities
 called London https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_(disambiguation)

 J

 On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 5:51 PM, Mikael Häggström <
 editor.in.chief(a)wikijmed.org&gt; wrote:

 I appreciate your views. As for the Wikimedia Journal name, we did have
 a name vote a while ago to choose the current name, and that one was among
 the candidates (but only received a few votes): https://en.wikiversity
 .org/wiki/WikiJournal/Future_as_separate_Wikimedia_project#N
 ame_election

 I don't find the co-existence of Philip's wikijournal.org to exclude
 our usage of the WikiJournal name. Also, as I understand, his project is a
 more inclusionist
 <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deletionism_and_inclusionism_in_Wikipedia> wiki
 than Wikipedia, and supported by AdSense
 <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AdSense> ads in the articles since his
 goal is also to make it profitable. I actually doubt he will continue that
 project in the long run. I think he bought the wikijournal.org for a
 couple of hundred dollars, so in this year's grant application (link
 to that of last year
 <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Project/Rapid/WikiJournal_of_Medicine>
 ) I think we can also apply for a single addition of perhaps about
 $300 to offer him for the domain, which I think he is likely to eventually
 take. Although he has invested considerable time developing his project,
 his project design is indeed different from our own visions, so I don't see
 any other aspect of wikijournal.org that we should use apart from the
 domain name. Nevertheless, I think we may also offer him credit as "creator
 of the wikijournal.org domain" at our Milestones.
 <https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/WikiJournal_of_Medicine/About#Milestones>
 In any case, I think we will get hold of the wikijournal.org domain
 before becoming a separate Wikimedia project.

 Although WikiJournal of Medicine is a registered non-profit
 organization, the WikiJournal name is not yet registered as a trademark by
 anyone. Perhaps we should add $200 to the next grant application to have
 the trademark registered, and then have it recognized internationally
 through the Madrid system.
 <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrid_system>

 Best regards,

 Mikael

 On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 12:57 AM, Daniel Mietchen <
 daniel.mietchen(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:

 Dear all,
 I have not been privy to those past conversations but here are my
 comments anyway:
 - I am not thrilled about the name WikiJournal, given that
 https://wikijournal.org/ exists and what it does.
 - there is still room to sort out naming issues as long as we are not
 formally organized
 - there was a similar situation with Wikitravel, which resulted in the
 name change to Wikivoyage
 - another similar situation arose with WikiProject Med, which wanted
 to be registered as "Wikimedia Medicine", but that was not OKed by WMF
 - I am not sure having WikiJournal (under whatever name) as a
 different sister project is the best way to move forward, and in any
 case, it is not obvious to me how Philip could help with that other
 than by contributing the domain.
 - If it were to become a new sister project, why not just go for
 something like https://journal.wikimedia.org and perhaps "Wikimedia
 Journal"?
 - I think it makes sense to aim at becoming a thematic organization as
 a next step, once the naming issue is sorted out

 Cheers,
 Daniel

 On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Gwinyai Masukume
 &lt;parturitions(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
 > Hi Diptanshu,
 >
 > Several of us were not keen on Wikijournal because the name had
 already been
 > used. I guess the naming issue is now water under the bridge.
 >
 > Kindest regards,
 > Gwinyai
 >
 > On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 3:08 AM, Diptanshu Das <
 das.diptanshu(a)gmail.com&gt;
 > wrote:
 >>
 >> If you people remember, I had initially spoken against adaptation of
 the
 >> name Wikijournal. It was because of the confusion that entities like
 >> https://en.wikijournal.org/wiki/WikiJournal may create. The
 subsequent vote
 >> shifted toward WikiJournal and that is perfectly ok but our by-laws
 should
 >> clearly mention about this WikiJournal, the Wiki Journal Club etc.
 stating
 >> that these are independent and un-affiliated.
 >>
 >> Regards
 >> Diptanshu
 >>
 >>
 >> Please do not print this e-mail unless you really need to.
 >>
 >> On 25 February 2017 at 01:57, Mikael Häggström
 >> &lt;editor.in.chief(a)wikijmed.org&gt; wrote:
 >>>
 >>> Hi WikiJournal participants!
 >>>
 >>> I had a talk with the domain owner of wikijournal.orgrecently, and
 it is
 >>> possible to merge our projects if we attain a WikiJournal/Future as
 separate
 >>> Wikimedia project - see also talk entry there at
 >>> en.wikijournal.org/wiki/Talk:WikiJournal. I think the most
 important next
 >>> step is to become a "thematic organization", proving that we can
 work as a
 >>> separate organization: I can start a draft of bylaws soon.
 >>>
 >>> Best regards,
 >>>
 >>> Mikael
 >>>
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