Re: [WikiJournal-en] [Wikijournal-en] Thematic organization

Dear Mikael and Gwinyai I think the main issue is not the domain but the parallel use of the name WikiJournal. Although we are working in thematically different areas, the unnecessary confusion in name can better be avoided. Getting the domain is a simple attempt to ensuring that. Last time when we looked up the domain, we had overlooked the Russian version of it and that is where it was perhaps active. A search in Waybackmachine can confirm the same. Regards Diptanshu On 01-Mar-2017 2:57 AM, "Felipe Schenone" &lt;schenonef(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Thanks for adding me to the Council, I appreciate it. The Russian version of wikijournal.org is at https://ru.wikijournal.org, not https://wikijournal.ru I just had a talk with Philip and I have great news! He has read about the Wikimedia movement and vision and he agrees! He wants to merge the two projects, no money involved. Tomorrow he will say hello on the WikiJournal talk page <https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Talk:WikiJournal/WikiJournal_User_Group>, lets welcome him with arms wide open. :-D On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:32 PM Mikael Häggström < editor.in.chief(a)wikijmed.org&gt; wrote: I don't see what kind of vulnerability a deal like this would confer to us. In any case, it doesn't seem harmful to ask for a price, so I now did at his page at https://en.wikijournal.org/wiki/Talk:WikiJournal On a side note, I'd like to welcome Felipe Schenone to our WikiJournal Council <https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/WikiJournal/WikiJournal_User_Group#WikiJournal_Council> (a group that still doesn't have any official status, but may soon have as we push WikiJournal towards becoming a thematic organization <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_thematic_organizations>). Best regards, Mikael On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 9:25 PM, Gwinyai Masukume &lt;parturitions(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Hi All, I'm a little concerned about recent happenings. The domain wikijournal.org seemed to be inactive when the vote was done (now there's talk of hundreds of dollars). In my own view, a merger is off the table because the underlying philosophies are fundamentally different. In addition, we do not need that domain to function and using Wikimedia foundation funds to purchase domains opens us up to all sorts of vulnerability. Wikijournal of xx is unique enough in my view. I propose option 3, continuing as usual. Kindest regards, Gwinyai Apologies for brevity and typos - sent from mobile On 28 Feb 2017 20:05, "Mikael Häggström" &lt;editor.in.chief(a)wikijmed.org&gt; wrote: Hi all, Unfortunately, I don't find those 200 Russian pages at wikijournal.ru to fulfill our vision of a peer reviewed scientific journal, so I would oppose a merge. I agree we can ask him about what price he would be willing to have for the wikijournal.org domain. He could still continue to use the Russian wikijournal.ru domain which he previously used to redirect to the Russian site. It would never be worth the effort for us to secure every national version of the wikijournal domain. Best regards, Mikael On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 7:37 PM, Diptanshu Das &lt;das.diptanshu(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Wikijournal.org's tagline reads: Free, independent, international online magazine Wikimag.org is available. https://domainr.com/wikimag.org?q=wikimag We could insist (request) to Philip that he migrates to this domain. Perhaps this is more applicable for the purpose they intend to use it for. Regards Diptanshu Please do not print this e-mail unless you really need to. On 28 February 2017 at 23:16, Diptanshu Das &lt;das.diptanshu(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: This is indeed a very crucial discussion. At some stage we should take it on wiki. It is also important to hear more and more people speak on this. I have checked the russian site. The translated version can be found here: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=… Заглавная_страница&edit-text=&act=url My view is that we should ask Philip to name his price. Apart from that we should help him to relocate to another domain with the 200 or so articles that he has. We also need to reassure him that the relocated site would continue to earn equal revenue after an initial dip and that we would help in redirecting traffic to his new domain wherever applicable. I would not support a name change of our journal at this stage. Regards Diptanshu Please do not print this e-mail unless you really need to. On 28 February 2017 at 19:08, Felipe Schenone &lt;schenonef(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: I had a long talk with Philip, the owner of wikijournal.org He has worked on the project for 4 years, has 200 articles, 600 page views per day and makes a dollar a day with advertising. He will NOT accept to sell his domain for 300 dollars, it makes no sense. Also, I should mention that his main language is Russian, so a merge with it would give us a Russian version of the project, which is something to aim for if we want the project to grow. I think that there are three possible ways to go: 1. Seek a merge 2. Rename the project and secure the relevant .org domain from the beginning 3. Do nothing, keep developing WikiJournal on Wikiversity and see what time brings If we want a merge, I seriously think we should ask Philip to name his price and include that into the grant request, rather than offering him a couple hundred dollars as if his work and time count for nothing. He is currently well predisposed towards a merge, largely because I approached him with respect for his work, so please don't screw it. A good predisposition will lead him to ask a reasonable price, and will also keep him active in the project after the merge. So what do you think? Should I ask what is his price? Kind regards, On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 11:40 PM Diptanshu Das &lt;das.diptanshu(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: I would favour starting a rapid grant request at the earliest. Prior to our adoption of the name "WikiJournal" the present owner of the domain WikiJournal.org was planning not to renew it. Mikael's communication had confirmed the same. But the renewed interest in the name somehow got him interested again, perhaps not for an independent project but for some unstated impending gain. In such a case a direct monetary offer as well as a trademark application seems essential. Regards Diptanshu On 27-Feb-2017 1:43 AM, "Thomas Shafee" &lt;thomas.shafee(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: I'd support a buy-out of the WikiJournal domain. The existing project there is almost empty and has barely been updated. A google search for "WikiJournal" finds us before them. And "Wikijournal of X" finds the relevant pages as first hits. I think that becoming the best known Wikijournal is more impedance than being the only. Similarly, as we grow, we will overtake the "wiki journal club" in Google pagerank prominence. The WMF seemed approve of the previous grant, so I think that a new rapid grant would be a good idea. It achieves very clear outcomes, is low cost, and works towards a larger goal of solidifying the WikiJournals (med and sci) that address content quality issues they're consistently interested in. I'll happily help out writing the grant if we go ahead (will be most free late March). Thomas On 26 Feb 2017 04:09, "Michaël Laurent" &lt;michael.laurent(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Hi Daniel, Thanks for sharing your thoughts, if more people would do so we would advance faster imho. I think that having the most logical name and perhaps ask Philip to donate the domain like you say, is better than a completely novel name which is less easily understood. But I'd love to hear more from others. BW Michaël Op 26 feb. 2017 12:12 schreef "Gwinyai Masukume" &lt;parturitions(a)gmail.com&gt;om>: Hi All, If I'm not mistaken a rapid grant can be applied for at a moments notice (rather than wait for ~one year)? In my view the sooner these issues are attended to the better. Kindest regards, Gwinyai Apologies for brevity and typos - sent from mobile. On 26 Feb 2017 10:17, "Diptanshu Das" &lt;das.diptanshu(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Dear All I would like to back Mikael. I also think that inclusion of $300 for the domain and $200 for the trademark are justified. As of now I would not be worried about the co-existence of another WikiJournal. However, I feel that our tagline (or something similar) should contain something to distinguish among the two. Regards Diptanshu Das Please do not print this e-mail unless you really need to. On 26 February 2017 at 15:25, James Heilman &lt;jmh649(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Having the same name is not a huge issue. For example there are three medical journals called "Open Medicine" (one in Canada, one in Europe, and one in the Arabic peninsula). There are also more than a dozen cities called London https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_(disambiguation) J On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 5:51 PM, Mikael Häggström < editor.in.chief(a)wikijmed.org&gt; wrote: I appreciate your views. As for the Wikimedia Journal name, we did have a name vote a while ago to choose the current name, and that one was among the candidates (but only received a few votes): https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/WikiJournal/Future_as_separate_Wikimedia_pr… I don't find the co-existence of Philip's wikijournal.org to exclude our usage of the WikiJournal name. Also, as I understand, his project is a more inclusionist <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deletionism_and_inclusionism_in_Wikipedia> wiki than Wikipedia, and supported by AdSense <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AdSense> ads in the articles since his goal is also to make it profitable. I actually doubt he will continue that project in the long run. I think he bought the wikijournal.org for a couple of hundred dollars, so in this year's grant application (link to that of last year <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Project/Rapid/WikiJournal_of_Medicine> ) I think we can also apply for a single addition of perhaps about $300 to offer him for the domain, which I think he is likely to eventually take. Although he has invested considerable time developing his project, his project design is indeed different from our own visions, so I don't see any other aspect of wikijournal.org that we should use apart from the domain name. Nevertheless, I think we may also offer him credit as "creator of the wikijournal.org domain" at our Milestones. <https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/WikiJournal_of_Medicine/About#Milestones> In any case, I think we will get hold of the wikijournal.org domain before becoming a separate Wikimedia project. Although WikiJournal of Medicine is a registered non-profit organization, the WikiJournal name is not yet registered as a trademark by anyone. Perhaps we should add $200 to the next grant application to have the trademark registered, and then have it recognized internationally through the Madrid system. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrid_system> Best regards, Mikael On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 12:57 AM, Daniel Mietchen < daniel.mietchen(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote: Dear all, I have not been privy to those past conversations but here are my comments anyway: - I am not thrilled about the name WikiJournal, given that https://wikijournal.org/ exists and what it does. - there is still room to sort out naming issues as long as we are not formally organized - there was a similar situation with Wikitravel, which resulted in the name change to Wikivoyage - another similar situation arose with WikiProject Med, which wanted to be registered as "Wikimedia Medicine", but that was not OKed by WMF - I am not sure having WikiJournal (under whatever name) as a different sister project is the best way to move forward, and in any case, it is not obvious to me how Philip could help with that other than by contributing the domain. - If it were to become a new sister project, why not just go for something like https://journal.wikimedia.org and perhaps "Wikimedia Journal"? - I think it makes sense to aim at becoming a thematic organization as a next step, once the naming issue is sorted out Cheers, Daniel On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Gwinyai Masukume &lt;parturitions(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: been vote should stating is separate next as a Groups an https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wjmboard/CACubOwjTwhEAY320pyqNh1GftLh0VDH… . Groups an https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wjmboard/CADcdAx-0D5B1Xd%3DfUcwbO38Z%2B_D… . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "wjmboard" group.