[Foundation-l] Cherokee Wikipedia Name Suggestion

Wed Jul 12 19:04:09 UTC 2006

James Hare wrote:

>I don't know if we want the Cherokee name of Wikipedia to feature words like
>"books", since there might be a Cherokee Wikibooks someday.
>  
>

Give me a list of concepts and I will translate them for you.  If you 
have other suggestions, please post them here and
lets get all the options out on the table.

Jeff

>On 7/12/06, Jeff V. Merkey <jmerkey at wolfmountaingroup.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Oldak Quill wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>But is there a way to transliterate it without using any conjugators
>>>or verb stem modifiers?
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Yes, there is, but it isn't going to produce a "wiki" sound.   Native
>>languages (ours included) have evolved to incorporate
>>expression of the physical world in spiritual terms.  Because of this,
>>misuse of the language is perceived by most native
>>speakers as an extreme form of disrespect.  For example:
>>
>>"di" means plural of nonliving objects and
>>
>>"u" or "una" means plural of a living sentient being
>>
>>using "di" to make a human word plural is a form of insult.   diyvwi
>>would mean (its not a real word but could be used) to call
>>a person or group of people "subhuman".  You have to be careful with
>>native languages in doing transliteration.  Every Cherokee I
>>have shown wi-gi-que-di-ya to has rolled their eyes (oh brother roll
>>your eyes) or laughed because of the name.   The fact is, I dount
>>if we named the main Wikipedia site "The bad place put together in the
>>past we should keep our hands off of because its part of an animal and has
>>a lot of people dwelling there" would not serve to attract people to
>>edit there.
>>
>>aniyvwiya is a very respectful way of saying cherokee people becaue the
>>word yvwi means "it has a spirit".  Another example is Hello in Cherokee.
>>Modenr speakers in Okalhoma use two forms.  osiyo and just siyo.  siyo
>>is not respecful and is an impersonal "what do the h_ll do you want"
>>form of hellow because it drops the "o" sound.  "o" in front of the word
>>means "I treat you as an equal and greet you" instead of just "I greet
>>you".  One example.
>>
>>Here's some other suggestions which are broad and will attract Cherokee
>>editors to the site:
>>
>>ᎠᏂᏴᏫᏯ ᎦᏚᎩ
>>
>>"Aniyvwiya gadugi"  - The human people of the creator working together
>>
>>ᎠᏂᏴᏫᏯ
>>
>>"Aniyvwiya" - The human people of the creator.
>>
>>ᎠᏂᏴᏫᏯᏱ
>>
>>"Aniyvwiyayi" - The place of the human people of the creator
>>
>>ᏣᎳᎩ ᎦᏚᎩ
>>
>>"Tsalagi gadugi" - Cherokee people working together
>>
>>ᏣᎳᎩ ᏗᎪᏪᎵ ᎦᏣᏄᎳ
>>
>>"tsalagi digoweli gatsanula" -    Cherokee fast books
>>
>>ᏣᎳᎩ ᏗᎪᏪᎵ
>>
>>"tsalagi digoweli" - Cherokee books
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>    
>>
>>>ja.wikipedia (ウィキペディア) transliterates as U-I-KI-PE-DI-A! So they
>>>transliterated too.
>>>
>>>On 12/07/06, Jeffrey V. Merkey <jmerkey at wolfmountaingroup.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Oldak Quill wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>How amusing!
>>>>>
>>>>>For a language like Cherokee then (agglutinative), it seems
>>>>>appropriate to not use transliteration.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>You can use transliteraton, but there are rules to avoid using
>>>>conjugators and verb stem modifiers in trasliterations since these
>>>>create meanings in the word and may create something unintended.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Thinking about agglutinative languages, do you know what the Japanese
>>>>>Wikipedia is called (I would imagine that it too avoids
>>>>>transliteration).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>Not a clue.
>>>>
>>>>Jeff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>On 12/07/06, Jeffrey V. Merkey <jmerkey at wolfmountaingroup.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>Oldak Quill wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Most Wikimedia projects don't translate "Wikipedia", "Wiktionary",
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>and
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>"Wikimedia", they transliterate them. Even non-Latin alphabets do
>>>>>>>this: Russian Wikipedia is called "Википедию" which transliterates as
>>>>>>>Ve-I-Ka-I-Pe-Ye-De-I-Ya (those are the names of the letters, at
>>>>>>>least). Does Cherokee have some kind of formal transliteration
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>system?
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>On 12/07/06, Jeffrey V. Merkey <jmerkey at wolfmountaingroup.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The name should be:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>ᏗᎪᏪᎵ ᎦᏣᏄᎳ
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>(digoweli gatsanula)
>>>>>>>>"the books = pedia " " that are fast = wiki "
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>to match the actual meanings of the words "wiki" and "pedia".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The current name of the site, while catchy, is not accurate for the
>>>>>>>>language, and was synthesized.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Just a suggestion...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Jeff
>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>foundation-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes. it does have one for words like this, but taking potshots at the
>>>>>>name can create something you do not intend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Let's look at it:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wi-gi-que-di-ya
>>>>>>
>>>>>>wi  - (negative imperfect past tense)
>>>>>>gi - to combine
>>>>>>que - incomplete verb root about an animal
>>>>>>di - plural for a non living object
>>>>>>ya - broad area of concern (means "pertains to or covers a broad area
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>or
>>    
>>
>>>>>>topic)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Not to mention "di" is always at the start of a pural word, "gi" is a
>>>>>>modifier always at the end of a word, que isn't a word at all, and
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>"wi"
>>    
>>
>>>>>>is a tense modifer always at the end of word.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Translation:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Something very negative in the past was put together for (??? -
>>>>>>something that resembles a contraction of the word nesgi which means
>>>>>>keep your hands off of it) , and there were a bunch of them (di) that
>>>>>>dwell in a large area.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In other words, its current name implies "negative place to keep your
>>>>>>hands off of and there's a whole bunch of us here".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Based on the edit history of the site, seems to have been the course
>>>>>>followed.  Perhaps we should change its name?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Jeff
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>foundation-l mailing list
>>>>>>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>>>>>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
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>>    
>>
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