[Foundation-l] Cherokee Wikipedia Name Suggestion

Wed Jul 12 18:21:43 UTC 2006

I don't know if we want the Cherokee name of Wikipedia to feature words like
"books", since there might be a Cherokee Wikibooks someday.

On 7/12/06, Jeff V. Merkey <jmerkey at wolfmountaingroup.com> wrote:
>
> Oldak Quill wrote:
>
> >But is there a way to transliterate it without using any conjugators
> >or verb stem modifiers?
> >
> >
>
> Yes, there is, but it isn't going to produce a "wiki" sound.   Native
> languages (ours included) have evolved to incorporate
> expression of the physical world in spiritual terms.  Because of this,
> misuse of the language is perceived by most native
> speakers as an extreme form of disrespect.  For example:
>
> "di" means plural of nonliving objects and
>
> "u" or "una" means plural of a living sentient being
>
> using "di" to make a human word plural is a form of insult.   diyvwi
> would mean (its not a real word but could be used) to call
> a person or group of people "subhuman".  You have to be careful with
> native languages in doing transliteration.  Every Cherokee I
> have shown wi-gi-que-di-ya to has rolled their eyes (oh brother roll
> your eyes) or laughed because of the name.   The fact is, I dount
> if we named the main Wikipedia site "The bad place put together in the
> past we should keep our hands off of because its part of an animal and has
> a lot of people dwelling there" would not serve to attract people to
> edit there.
>
> aniyvwiya is a very respectful way of saying cherokee people becaue the
> word yvwi means "it has a spirit".  Another example is Hello in Cherokee.
> Modenr speakers in Okalhoma use two forms.  osiyo and just siyo.  siyo
> is not respecful and is an impersonal "what do the h_ll do you want"
> form of hellow because it drops the "o" sound.  "o" in front of the word
> means "I treat you as an equal and greet you" instead of just "I greet
> you".  One example.
>
> Here's some other suggestions which are broad and will attract Cherokee
> editors to the site:
>
> ᎠᏂᏴᏫᏯ ᎦᏚᎩ
>
> "Aniyvwiya gadugi"  - The human people of the creator working together
>
> ᎠᏂᏴᏫᏯ
>
> "Aniyvwiya" - The human people of the creator.
>
> ᎠᏂᏴᏫᏯᏱ
>
> "Aniyvwiyayi" - The place of the human people of the creator
>
> ᏣᎳᎩ ᎦᏚᎩ
>
> "Tsalagi gadugi" - Cherokee people working together
>
> ᏣᎳᎩ ᏗᎪᏪᎵ ᎦᏣᏄᎳ
>
> "tsalagi digoweli gatsanula" -    Cherokee fast books
>
> ᏣᎳᎩ ᏗᎪᏪᎵ
>
> "tsalagi digoweli" - Cherokee books
>
> Jeff
>
> >ja.wikipedia (ウィキペディア) transliterates as U-I-KI-PE-DI-A! So they
> >transliterated too.
> >
> >On 12/07/06, Jeffrey V. Merkey <jmerkey at wolfmountaingroup.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Oldak Quill wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>How amusing!
> >>>
> >>>For a language like Cherokee then (agglutinative), it seems
> >>>appropriate to not use transliteration.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>You can use transliteraton, but there are rules to avoid using
> >>conjugators and verb stem modifiers in trasliterations since these
> >>create meanings in the word and may create something unintended.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Thinking about agglutinative languages, do you know what the Japanese
> >>>Wikipedia is called (I would imagine that it too avoids
> >>>transliteration).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Not a clue.
> >>
> >>Jeff
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>On 12/07/06, Jeffrey V. Merkey <jmerkey at wolfmountaingroup.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Oldak Quill wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Most Wikimedia projects don't translate "Wikipedia", "Wiktionary",
> and
> >>>>>"Wikimedia", they transliterate them. Even non-Latin alphabets do
> >>>>>this: Russian Wikipedia is called "Википедию" which transliterates as
> >>>>>Ve-I-Ka-I-Pe-Ye-De-I-Ya (those are the names of the letters, at
> >>>>>least). Does Cherokee have some kind of formal transliteration
> system?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>On 12/07/06, Jeffrey V. Merkey <jmerkey at wolfmountaingroup.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>The name should be:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>ᏗᎪᏪᎵ ᎦᏣᏄᎳ
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>(digoweli gatsanula)
> >>>>>>"the books = pedia " " that are fast = wiki "
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>to match the actual meanings of the words "wiki" and "pedia".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The current name of the site, while catchy, is not accurate for the
> >>>>>>language, and was synthesized.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Just a suggestion...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Jeff
> >>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>foundation-l mailing list
> >>>>>>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> >>>>>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>Yes. it does have one for words like this, but taking potshots at the
> >>>>name can create something you do not intend.
> >>>>
> >>>>Let's look at it:
> >>>>
> >>>>Wi-gi-que-di-ya
> >>>>
> >>>>wi  - (negative imperfect past tense)
> >>>>gi - to combine
> >>>>que - incomplete verb root about an animal
> >>>>di - plural for a non living object
> >>>>ya - broad area of concern (means "pertains to or covers a broad area
> or
> >>>>topic)
> >>>>
> >>>>Not to mention "di" is always at the start of a pural word, "gi" is a
> >>>>modifier always at the end of a word, que isn't a word at all, and
> "wi"
> >>>>is a tense modifer always at the end of word.
> >>>>
> >>>>Translation:
> >>>>
> >>>>"Something very negative in the past was put together for (??? -
> >>>>something that resembles a contraction of the word nesgi which means
> >>>>keep your hands off of it) , and there were a bunch of them (di) that
> >>>>dwell in a large area.
> >>>>
> >>>>In other words, its current name implies "negative place to keep your
> >>>>hands off of and there's a whole bunch of us here".
> >>>>
> >>>>Based on the edit history of the site, seems to have been the course
> >>>>followed.  Perhaps we should change its name?
> >>>>
> >>>>Jeff
> >>>>
> >>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>foundation-l mailing list
> >>>>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> >>>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>foundation-l mailing list
> >>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> >>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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