[Foundation-l] Cherokee Wikipedia Name Suggestion

Wed Jul 12 18:49:46 UTC 2006

Oldak Quill wrote:

>But is there a way to transliterate it without using any conjugators
>or verb stem modifiers?
>  
>

Yes, there is, but it isn't going to produce a "wiki" sound.   Native 
languages (ours included) have evolved to incorporate
expression of the physical world in spiritual terms.  Because of this, 
misuse of the language is perceived by most native
speakers as an extreme form of disrespect.  For example:

"di" means plural of nonliving objects and

"u" or "una" means plural of a living sentient being

using "di" to make a human word plural is a form of insult.   diyvwi 
would mean (its not a real word but could be used) to call
a person or group of people "subhuman".  You have to be careful with 
native languages in doing transliteration.  Every Cherokee I
have shown wi-gi-que-di-ya to has rolled their eyes (oh brother roll 
your eyes) or laughed because of the name.   The fact is, I dount
if we named the main Wikipedia site "The bad place put together in the 
past we should keep our hands off of because its part of an animal and has
a lot of people dwelling there" would not serve to attract people to 
edit there.  

aniyvwiya is a very respectful way of saying cherokee people becaue the 
word yvwi means "it has a spirit".  Another example is Hello in Cherokee.
Modenr speakers in Okalhoma use two forms.  osiyo and just siyo.  siyo 
is not respecful and is an impersonal "what do the h_ll do you want" 
form of hellow because it drops the "o" sound.  "o" in front of the word 
means "I treat you as an equal and greet you" instead of just "I greet 
you".  One example.

Here's some other suggestions which are broad and will attract Cherokee 
editors to the site:

ᎠᏂᏴᏫᏯ ᎦᏚᎩ

"Aniyvwiya gadugi"  - The human people of the creator working together

ᎠᏂᏴᏫᏯ

"Aniyvwiya" - The human people of the creator.

ᎠᏂᏴᏫᏯᏱ

"Aniyvwiyayi" - The place of the human people of the creator

ᏣᎳᎩ ᎦᏚᎩ

"Tsalagi gadugi" - Cherokee people working together

ᏣᎳᎩ ᏗᎪᏪᎵ ᎦᏣᏄᎳ

"tsalagi digoweli gatsanula" -    Cherokee fast books

ᏣᎳᎩ ᏗᎪᏪᎵ

"tsalagi digoweli" - Cherokee books

Jeff

>ja.wikipedia (ウィキペディア) transliterates as U-I-KI-PE-DI-A! So they
>transliterated too.
>
>On 12/07/06, Jeffrey V. Merkey <jmerkey at wolfmountaingroup.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Oldak Quill wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>How amusing!
>>>
>>>For a language like Cherokee then (agglutinative), it seems
>>>appropriate to not use transliteration.
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>You can use transliteraton, but there are rules to avoid using
>>conjugators and verb stem modifiers in trasliterations since these
>>create meanings in the word and may create something unintended.
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Thinking about agglutinative languages, do you know what the Japanese
>>>Wikipedia is called (I would imagine that it too avoids
>>>transliteration).
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Not a clue.
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>    
>>
>>>On 12/07/06, Jeffrey V. Merkey <jmerkey at wolfmountaingroup.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Oldak Quill wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Most Wikimedia projects don't translate "Wikipedia", "Wiktionary", and
>>>>>"Wikimedia", they transliterate them. Even non-Latin alphabets do
>>>>>this: Russian Wikipedia is called "Википедию" which transliterates as
>>>>>Ve-I-Ka-I-Pe-Ye-De-I-Ya (those are the names of the letters, at
>>>>>least). Does Cherokee have some kind of formal transliteration system?
>>>>>
>>>>>On 12/07/06, Jeffrey V. Merkey <jmerkey at wolfmountaingroup.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>The name should be:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>ᏗᎪᏪᎵ ᎦᏣᏄᎳ
>>>>>>
>>>>>>(digoweli gatsanula)
>>>>>>"the books = pedia " " that are fast = wiki "
>>>>>>
>>>>>>to match the actual meanings of the words "wiki" and "pedia".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The current name of the site, while catchy, is not accurate for the
>>>>>>language, and was synthesized.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Just a suggestion...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Jeff
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>foundation-l mailing list
>>>>>>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>>>>>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>Yes. it does have one for words like this, but taking potshots at the
>>>>name can create something you do not intend.
>>>>
>>>>Let's look at it:
>>>>
>>>>Wi-gi-que-di-ya
>>>>
>>>>wi  - (negative imperfect past tense)
>>>>gi - to combine
>>>>que - incomplete verb root about an animal
>>>>di - plural for a non living object
>>>>ya - broad area of concern (means "pertains to or covers a broad area or
>>>>topic)
>>>>
>>>>Not to mention "di" is always at the start of a pural word, "gi" is a
>>>>modifier always at the end of a word, que isn't a word at all, and "wi"
>>>>is a tense modifer always at the end of word.
>>>>
>>>>Translation:
>>>>
>>>>"Something very negative in the past was put together for (??? -
>>>>something that resembles a contraction of the word nesgi which means
>>>>keep your hands off of it) , and there were a bunch of them (di) that
>>>>dwell in a large area.
>>>>
>>>>In other words, its current name implies "negative place to keep your
>>>>hands off of and there's a whole bunch of us here".
>>>>
>>>>Based on the edit history of the site, seems to have been the course
>>>>followed.  Perhaps we should change its name?
>>>>
>>>>Jeff
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>foundation-l mailing list
>>>>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>>>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
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>>
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>>
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