[Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Communs

Wed May 26 05:49:55 UTC 2004

Erik Moeller wrote:

>Jimbo is subscribed to the list
>
Yes, but until today, every time I've looked at the list of subscribers, 
Jimbo's email was marked as having list delivery disabled. So as far as 
I know, he hasn't been reading the messages on this list for most or all 
of its existence. That's not necessarily a criticism of Jimbo, who has 
many things to attend to, and can't be everywhere at once. But when we 
collectively, consciously or unconsciously, only discuss policy issues 
"in his presence", our behavior gives the impression of Jimbo as a 
MeatBall:GodKing. A number of people have criticized the way these 
mailing lists operate, and some object to participating as a result. 
When you can observe differences between one mailing list and another 
for reasons like this, it unfortunately gives credence to the criticism 
that the mailing list is "like a king's court" (quoting someone else's 
phrase). I think the mailing lists are useful, but we need to be aware 
of appearances and not reinforce the image of a cabal.

>but he started the thread on wikipedia-l, so I replied there.
>
Nothing wrong with that, and possibly Jimbo also started the thread 
there because you posted the original idea there (before this list ever 
existed). Another possible approach is to shift the discussion to the 
appropriate mailing list. Given that some people have equated this list 
with the defunct and rarely used wikilegal-l, I think it worthwhile to 
put a little extra effort into seeing that this list actually gets used 
for its intended purpose.

>Is there any particular reason for this thread to be  
>in French?
>
Anthere wrote in French, so I replied in French. Since she preferred to 
use her native language, for whatever reasons, I considered it a small 
show of courtesy and good will to reply in the same language, since I'm 
able to. I would be happy to translate into English for anyone who asks.

>foundation-l and wikipedia-l are multilingual to allow people to communicate who otherwise could not
>
Now that I look closely I see you added something similar to 
[[Wikipedia:Mailing lists]] a couple months ago, and apparently nobody 
objected. That seems like a pretty restrictive formulation to me, as if 
we're only allowing multilingual discussion as a sort of concession, and 
you _must_ use English unless you cannot.

For an organization as diverse and multilingual as Wikimedia, I think we 
should take a more friendly attitude toward the use of other languages. 
After all, for many languages there are also various people using the 
list who can take a stab at translation. I would just as soon see a 
person post in their native language, and rely on someone else with good 
English skills to translate, than try and sort out from their broken 
English what they really meant. Basically, I think it would be more in 
keeping with the spirit of the project, if we allow people to post to 
project-wide mailing lists in whatever language they choose. Many will 
probably prefer to use English, but they don't need to be told to do so, 
and by not telling them we do less to intimidate those who feel less 
secure in their English.

Well, I've raised my concerns, and we can discuss it further on the talk 
page.

>not to have semi-private exchanges on a public list.
>  
>
I see discussions all the time on the mailing lists that are basically 
conversations involving a very small handful of people. I don't see 
anything wrong with that, any more than there's anything wrong with two 
people engaging in a conversation on a talk page, which is equally 
public. Whoever is interested can always join in, and I'm happy to shift 
between my limited selection of languages to accommodate other participants.

--Michael Snow
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