[WikiEN-l] This is getting ugly

Tue Jan 13 03:06:01 UTC 2004

On Jan 12, 2004, at 10:24 AM, Robert wrote:

> This is getting really ugly.

Agreed.  Definitely agreed

> A dozen people have nmade
> personal attacks on me, all of them falsely saying that I
> am making personal attacks.

Here's where it gets ugly, my friend.

> Then an obviously anti-Israeli crowd is trying to define
> reality by voting, and is deleting vast amounts of proven
> facts in order to promote pro-Arab POV.
>
> Facts are not defined by votes. Only hatred is.
>
> If the consensus is that Wikipedia should promote
> anti-Zionism, anti-Semitism, and hateful crowds ganging up
> on one user, then that is precisely the reputation that it
> will get offline.

You must see that you're perpetuating the ugliness as much as your 
"attackers" (poor word choice of mine, but you know what I mean).  Of 
course, the converse is true: your "attackers" are perpetuating the 
ugliness as much as you.  It's just not necessary.

People have said things.  People have interpreted and misinterpreted 
things.  It's done, it's happened, and it's now in the past.  
Meanwhile, the *rest* of us are working on an encyclopedia.  If this is 
a personal battle, I personally think you (very much plural) should 
simply drop it.  If you wish to continue I would appreciate if it were 
taken off-list.  These accusations and counter-accusations have no 
place here.

That said, there *is* a substantive issue hidden in this mess.  The 
NPOV of certain articles is being questioned.  Let's address that.  
What has happened to the articles in the past does not matter anymore.  
Remember, the page history may exist, but it's the latest revision that 
counts.  Let's discuss what *is* there and what *should be* there.  
Without accusing each other of anti-Anythingism.

We are a community.  We are based tightly around the encyclopedia, but 
we are a community.  Anyone who is here to make offensive remarks or 
accusations is in the wrong place.  #REDIRECT [[Usenet]].

That said, we must have to trust that others' remarks are not intended 
as accusations or otherwise meant to offend.  If we don't give each 
other the benefit of the doubt, we'll all end up, well, basically like 
we are now: wrapped up in an unproductive argument over who said what 
(or didn't say what).  In the worst case scenario, you take an insult 
as constructive criticism.  Who cares?  If someone tries to hurt you 
and you don't notice, the other person's comment will just fall flat on 
it's face.  All the better.

Let's revive the substantive issues in an objective, fair, and, most 
importantly, calm manner.  Please drop the rest, or, if you must, take 
it off-list.  Thank you.

Concerned Wikipedian otherwise uninvolved in the matter,
Peter