Wikibasha and code signature

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Bala Jeyaraman

7 Feb 2011 7 Feb '11

7:16 a.m.

Microsoft's translation tool Wikibasha creates a code snippet like this -  at the bottom of the article everytime it is used to edit wikipedia pages. I found this out when the MS representative made sample edits to Tamil wikipedia. He claims that they need this to track the edits made using wikibasha. I believe this practice is highly disruptive because, adding such a signature to the bottom of the article is a)tantamount to claiming that the entire article is the work of wikibasha b) If we allow this practice, then all automated tools will start adding their code snippets, bloating the page with useless code signatures. wikipedians who took part in yesterday's carte blanche wiki workshop at chennai have conveyed this to the representative and have recommended using the tag in edit summaries instead. But i have no idea if Microsoft will actually listen to us. I thought i would inform the wider indic wiki communities regarding this. If wikibasha is used in your respective wiki's and keeps adding this signature, please urge the wikibasha developers to stop this practice. regards Bala On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Anoop <anoop.ind(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Almost similar issue with Tulu language also. http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/tcy On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Bala Jeyaraman <sodabottle(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:

which script is being used now? devanagari or kannada? On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:35 AM, CherianTinu Abraham < tinucherian(a)gmail.com> wrote:

The Hindu : Konkani Wikipedia bogged down by multiple scripts http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-karnataka/article114158… Regards Tinu Cherian http://wikimedia.in/wiki/In_the_news _______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l

-- Beauty lies in the eyes of the beer holder _______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l

-- With Regards, Anoop P _______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l

-- Beauty lies in the eyes of the beer holder

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Shiju Alex

7 Feb 7 Feb

8:26 a.m.

New subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikibasha and code signature

...

But i have no idea if Microsoft will actually listen to us.

If wikibasha is used in your respective wiki's and keeps adding this

...

signature, please urge the wikibasha developers to stop this practice.

It all depends on how active the respective wiki community is. If the language wikis have an active community and strong policies then corportaes like Google or Microsoft can not overrule that. On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 8:16 AM, Bala Jeyaraman <sodabottle(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Microsoft's translation tool Wikibasha creates a code snippet like this - >  at the bottom of the > article everytime it is used to edit wikipedia pages. I found this out when > the MS representative made sample edits to Tamil wikipedia. He claims that > they need this to track the edits made using wikibasha. > > I believe this practice is highly disruptive because, adding such a > signature to the bottom of the article is > a)tantamount to claiming that the entire article is the work of wikibasha > b) If we allow this practice, then all automated tools will start adding > their code snippets, bloating the page with useless code signatures. > > wikipedians who took part in yesterday's carte blanche wiki workshop at > chennai have conveyed this to the representative and have recommended using > the tag in edit summaries instead. But i have no idea if Microsoft will > actually listen to us. > > I thought i would inform the wider indic wiki communities regarding this. > If wikibasha is used in your respective wiki's and keeps adding this

...

signature, please urge the wikibasha developers to stop this practice.

> regards > Bala > > > On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Anoop <anoop.ind(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Almost similar issue with Tulu language also. >> >> http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/tcy >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Bala Jeyaraman <sodabottle(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote: >> >>> which script is being used now? devanagari or kannada? >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:35 AM, CherianTinu Abraham < >>> tinucherian(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> The Hindu : Konkani Wikipedia bogged down by multiple scripts >>>> >>>> http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-karnataka/article114158… >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Tinu Cherian >>>> http://wikimedia.in/wiki/In_the_news >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Beauty lies in the eyes of the beer holder >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> With Regards, >> Anoop P >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >> >> > > > -- > Beauty lies in the eyes of the beer holder > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > >

Siebrand Mazeland

9:58 a.m.

New subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikibasha and code signature

Hi. Recently i have started contracting for Microsoft Research to be a community liason with regards to Wikibhasha. I understand your concerns, although I disagree that adding a comment on a page after an edit should be considered "highly disruptive". Please create a change request in bugzilla.wikimedia.org to change the inline text comment to some identification in the edit summary. The Wikibhasha team at Microsoft research India will take all input very seriously. Siebrand Mazeland M: +31 6 50 69 1239 Skype: siebrand On 7 feb. 2011, at 09:26, Shiju Alex <shijualexonline(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

But i have no idea if Microsoft will actually listen to us. If wikibasha is used in your respective wiki's and keeps adding this signature, please urge the wikibasha developers to stop this practice. It all depends on how active the respective wiki community is. If the language wikis have an active community and strong policies then corportaes like Google or Microsoft can not overrule that. On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 8:16 AM, Bala Jeyaraman <sodabottle(a)gmail.com> wrote: Microsoft's translation tool Wikibasha creates a code snippet like this -  at the bottom of the article everytime it is used to edit wikipedia pages. I found this out when the MS representative made sample edits to Tamil wikipedia. He claims that they need this to track the edits made using wikibasha. I believe this practice is highly disruptive because, adding such a signature to the bottom of the article is a)tantamount to claiming that the entire article is the work of wikibasha b) If we allow this practice, then all automated tools will start adding their code snippets, bloating the page with useless code signatures.

sankarshan

10:09 a.m.

New subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikibasha and code signature

On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Siebrand Mazeland <s.mazeland(a)xs4all.nl> wrote:

...

Please create a change request in bugzilla.wikimedia.org to change the inline text comment to some identification in the edit summary. The Wikibhasha team at Microsoft research India will take all input very seriously.

Is there a way to file a request/enhancement against tool in question and then cross link the two trackers ? From what little I read of the thread it would include comments on both parties rather than limiting it to Wikipedia/Wikimedia. -- sankarshan mukhopadhyay <http://sankarshan.randomink.org/blog>

CherianTinu Abraham

10:18 a.m.

New subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikibasha and code signature

Bala, Please get in touch with Gautam/ Arunram for contacts of WikiBhasha team , Microsoft Bangalore. They ( MS team) recently presented it in one of the Wikimeetups in Bangalore. You may share your concerns directly with them. Although I won't call it as disruptive, It is better to move the third party signatures to edit summary than the article page ( like the Google translation kit). Regards Tinu Cherian On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Siebrand Mazeland <s.mazeland(a)xs4all.nl>wrote;wrote:

...

If wikibasha is used in your respective wiki's and keeps adding this > signature, please urge the wikibasha developers to stop this practice.

sodabottle(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Microsoft's translation tool Wikibasha creates a code snippet like this - >  at the bottom of the > article everytime it is used to edit wikipedia pages. I found this out when > the MS representative made sample edits to Tamil wikipedia. He claims that > they need this to track the edits made using wikibasha.

> I believe this practice is highly disruptive because, adding such a > signature to the bottom of the article is > a)tantamount to claiming that the entire article is the work of wikibasha > b) If we allow this practice, then all automated tools will start adding > their code snippets, bloating the page with useless code signatures.

_______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l

Bala Jeyaraman

10:27 a.m.

New subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikibasha and code signature

Siebrand, Thank you for the prompt reply . I will file a CR in bugzilla. But under what topic should i file one? (I don't find Wikibasha listed seperately in the "pick a product to enter a bug" page). And regarding the "highly disruptive" comment, imagine if everyone (bots and editors) start doing this. We have had a lot of automated tools before and none do this signing. If a human editor did the same thing, it will be considered spamming at worst and insensitive at best. If a bot did it, its botflag will be removed immediately. I was irritated because the MS representative Ta wiki people spoke to at the workshop claimed this was a "minor" thing. Tinu, Thanks for the tip. I did share the concerns directly (with the microsoft representative) and indirectly (through an edit summary reverting the code addition in the articles). I will ask Arun for wikibasha contact. On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Siebrand Mazeland <s.mazeland(a)xs4all.nl>wrote;wrote:

...

If wikibasha is used in your respective wiki's and keeps adding this > signature, please urge the wikibasha developers to stop this practice.

_______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l

-- Beauty lies in the eyes of the beer holder

Hari Prasad Nadig

10:38 a.m.

New subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikibasha and code signature

On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Bala Jeyaraman <sodabottle(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Fair point. There has to be a policy evolved on this. -- Hari Prasad Nadig http://hpnadig.net | http://twitter.com/hpnadig http://flickr.com/hpnadig

Siebrand Mazeland

11:19 a.m.

New subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikibasha and code signature

Wikibhasha should have an entry in the mediawiki extensions category. Siebrand Mazeland M: +31 6 50 69 1239 Skype: siebrand On 7 feb. 2011, at 11:27, Bala Jeyaraman <sodabottle(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Thank you for the prompt reply . I will file a CR in bugzilla. But under what topic should i file one? (I don't find Wikibasha listed seperately in the "pick a product to enter a bug" page). And regarding the "highly disruptive" comment, imagine if everyone (bots and editors) start doing this. We have had a lot of automated tools before and none do this signing. If a human editor did the same thing, it will be considered spamming at worst and insensitive at best. If a bot did it, its botflag will be removed immediately. I was irritated because the MS representative Ta wiki people spoke to at the workshop claimed this was a "minor" thing.

Bala Jeyaraman

11:34 a.m.

New subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikibasha and code signature

I have created the bug report https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27220 The person it is assigned to now - wikibasha.msr- is the same person who brushed it off as a "minor issue" on Feb 6. :-) On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 4:42 PM, Siebrand Mazeland <s.mazeland(a)xs4all.nl>wrote;wrote:

...

Wikibhasha should have an entry in the mediawiki extensions category. Siebrand Mazeland M: +31 6 50 69 1239 Skype: siebrand On 7 feb. 2011, at 11:27, Bala Jeyaraman <sodabottle(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you for the prompt reply . I will file a CR in bugzilla. But under

what topic should i file one? (I don't find Wikibasha listed seperately in the "pick a product to enter a bug" page).

And regarding the "highly disruptive" comment, imagine if everyone (bots

and editors) start doing this. We have had a lot of automated tools before and none do this signing. If a human editor did the same thing, it will be considered spamming at worst and insensitive at best. If a bot did it, its botflag will be removed immediately. I was irritated because the MS representative Ta wiki people spoke to at the workshop claimed this was a "minor" thing.

_______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l

-- Beauty lies in the eyes of the beer holder

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Bala Jeyaraman
CherianTinu Abraham
Hari Prasad Nadig
sankarshan
Shiju Alex
Siebrand Mazeland