Sad memories of Orkut, Panoramio, and all the unvaluable repositories of
online knowledge that have been completely destroyed in the recent past,
because they were doomed as uncompetitive by big corporations as Google. I
seriously hope we don't go that way. 😟
Paulo
Peter Southwood <peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net> escreveu no dia quinta,
18/04/2019 Ã (s) 09:34:
Our brand is already on it in these cases, and yes it
would be sending a
message - "We want you to risk your time and effort on our projects but we
may later decide to discard everything you worked for"
Cheers,
P
-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
Behalf Of Jennifer Pryor-Summers
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 8:19 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Supporting Wikinews [was: Reviewing our brand
system for our 2030 goals]
Peter
Putting your brand on a project that is visibly failing also sends out a
message, to the world at large. Is that a message you want to broadcast?
JPS
On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 3:32 PM Peter Southwood <
peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net> wrote:
Abandoning a project and shutting it down sends a
message to all
volunteers that their work could be similarly abandoned and lost one day.
Is that a message we want to broadcast?
Cheers,
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
Behalf Of Ziko van Dijk
Sent: 17 April 2019 00:46
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Supporting Wikinews [was: Reviewing our brand
system for our 2030 goals]
Hello,
Some years ago, some volunteers have proposed a new Wikimedia wiki. It
did
not turn out as expected. That‘s okay, the
movement should try out thing
from time to time.
But this wiki should not be seen as an eternal obligation to be kept.
Kind regards
Ziko
Samuel Klein <meta.sj(a)gmail.com> schrieb am Di. 16. Apr. 2019 um 23:56:
Jennifer -- as you say, there is a contradiction
here in the self-image
and
internal narrative of the projects and movement.
A classic branding
issue
;)
* On the one hand, we lack clear, consistent language to talk about
topical
subprojects (what do you call 'the Current
Events specialists on the
major
> language Wikpiedias'? some obvious names have already been taken)
> * On the other, for the few Names that we assign to Projects, we
> overspecify what they mean ('Wikinews is original news reporting or
> synthesis, done on a
wikinews.org site').
>
> We propagate this confusion of identity to those outside the projects
> trying to understand them; which in turn leads to misunderstanding in
the
> world at large, and fewer potential
collaborators joining the projects:
> I was recently at a gathering of international fact-checkers.
They
all
prized Wikipedia as a model for what rapid collective editing can
accomplish; assumed wikinews and wikitribune were the best efforts to
date
> of applying that to current events; and began an enthusiastic
discussion
about how
to do it better. When I pointed out that Wikipedias did
exactly
> what they were discussing, for the most popular news, this was
startling
> and satisfying to them. However as there is
no central cafe or village
> pump for current events editors, and what portals do exist are
impossible
> to find for all but the most persistent, it
is not obvious how to
engage
> with them...
>
> This is a challenge of naming + identity that really holds us back:
ways
> for people to form groups, projects, message
streams; and channel,
> advertise, amplify, polish them; use them for flash projects and
> coalescence, for awareness and thanks. We have tried many small steps
in
> this direction but have never made groups or
hashtags work as simple,
> functional tools of alignment.
>
> SJ
>
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:23 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers <
> jennifer.pryorsummers(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Andrew
> >
> > It seems to me that you're saying that, on the one hand, the policies
> that
> > make Wikipedia work well as an encyclopaedia (NOR, RS, V, NORUSH)
are a
> poor
fit for a news-gathering operation and on the other hand,
Wikipedia
is
> a success as a news-gathering operation. These seem inconsistent to
me.
> However, I conclude from what you're
saying that the best way forward
is
to
> fold the Wikinews operation into Wikipedia. Is that right?
>
> JPS
>
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 8:15 PM Andrew Lih <andrew.lih(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 2:27 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers <
> > jennifer.pryorsummers(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Wikinews may not be doing too well, but (English-language)
Wikipedia
> > > seems
> > > > to have taken up a news-gathering role not entirely consistent
with
its
> > encyclopediac mission: perhaps
that's the reason. Maybe the WMF
should
> > > sort out the demarcation issues.
> > >
> >
> > Jennifer,
> >
> > This has been a topic of discussion for more than a decade and the
vast
> > majority of the community has converged
on the conclusion that
Wikinews
> > > hasn't and won't ever work at any scale given its fundamental
> properties.
> > >
> > > News is often described as "the best obtainable version of the
truth
> > given
> > > the constraints of a deadline." News depends on memorializing
direct
> >
observation at a point in time. Therefore, the following policies
that
> make
> > Wikipedia work are a bad fit for original, deadline reporting:
> >
> > Wikipedia:NOR - no original research
> > Wikipedia:RS - requirement for reliable sources
> > Wikipedia:V - verifiability
> > Wikipedia:NORUSH - there is no deadline/eventualism
> >
> > Most anyone who tries Wikinews first hand will experience this
mismatch
> > and
> > > realize it is a poor fit.
> > >
> > > However, rather than lament why Wikinews doesn't work, we should
> > celebrate
> > > the fact that we have found a better mode: entries that evolve
minute
> to
> > > minute (oftentimes second to second) to best reflect the world as
we
> know
> > > it. Embrace that new, live, constantly updated snapshot of reality
–
the
> Wikipedia article.
>
> If you want to see some of the earlier debates about the origins of
> Wikinews, October 2004 is a good place to look:
> [1]
>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-October/thread.html
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-October/061017.html
>
>
> > -Andrew
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
_______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
--
Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529
4266
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>