[WikiEN-l] RE: WikiEN-l Digest, Vol 22, Issue 33

Thu May 12 21:42:35 UTC 2005

help

 -Michael

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Subject: WikiEN-l Digest, Vol 22, Issue 33

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: The niceness principle (Theo Clarke)
   2. RE: Re: Corrected (Wollmann) (Poor, Edmund W)
   3. Re: Re: Corrected (Wollmann) (David 'DJ' Hedley)
   4. Re: Google hit rankings (Asbestos)
   5. Re: Corrected (Wollmann) (Anthere)
   6. Re: Corrected (Wollmann) (Anthere)
   7. Re: Re: Corrected (Wollmann) (David Gerard)
   8. Re: Re: Corrected (Wollmann) (David Gerard)
   9. Re: Scope of phone support, (was [WikiEN-l] Re: Corrected
      (Wollmann)) (Jason Trickey)
  10. Re: Re: Corrected (Wollmann) (Tony Sidaway)
  11. RE: Re: Corrected (Wollmann) (Tony Sidaway)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 15:27:29 +0100
From: Theo Clarke <wiki at tignosis.com>
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] The niceness principle
To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at wikipedia.org>
Message-ID: <2005512152729.413584 at Theo214>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

On Thu, 12 May 2005 03:39:03 +0100, Stacey Greenstein wrote:
> Should we then only write nice things about people/ Should we only
> include facts that the subjects' approve? Or should we be impartial and
> show that there is reality and negativeity?

The impartiality of showing reality and negativity does not mean that we
need to abandon principles such as kindness.  I find it helpful to remember
that there are feeling people on the other side of my screen. And, yes, I do
recognise that some people will see this view as sanctimonious.

Theo

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 13:17:40 -0700
From: "Poor, Edmund W" <Edmund.W.Poor at abc.com>
Subject: RE: [WikiEN-l] Re: Corrected (Wollmann)
To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Message-ID:

<E506B3FF6BC1254C9AC1B948C380BC28040A6ADA at sm-nyny-xm05.nena.wdpr.disney.com>

Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Why not write a Wikipedia about Wollman, if he's that fascinating? If it
survives the VFD process, than that might give us an excuse to mention
him via a link from kooks newsgroup. But if it fails a vfd vote, that's
pretty conclusive evidence that he's "non-notable".

Ed

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 21:29:58 +0100
From: "David 'DJ' Hedley" <spyders at btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: Corrected (Wollmann)
To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Message-ID: <001301c55731$5d6f0ca0$b8bd9d51 at hedlatora>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

>From mailing list messages I read earlier, Wollmann's article already
failed
VfD previously (and had serious NPOV issues).
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Poor, Edmund W" <Edmund.W.Poor at abc.com>
To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:17 PM
Subject: RE: [WikiEN-l] Re: Corrected (Wollmann)

Why not write a Wikipedia about Wollman, if he's that fascinating? If it
survives the VFD process, than that might give us an excuse to mention
him via a link from kooks newsgroup. But if it fails a vfd vote, that's
pretty conclusive evidence that he's "non-notable".

Ed
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 21:47:17 +0100
From: Asbestos <asbestos999 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Google hit rankings
To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at wikipedia.org>
Message-ID: <ad789c9005051213476405d0 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Maybe Google's annoyed that Yahoo got to host Wikipedia space instead of 
them...

Sam
-- 
Asbestos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Asbestos

On 5/12/05, Stan Shebs <shebs at apple.com> wrote:
> 
> Nathan Wong wrote:
> 
> > Why does Wikipedia seem to be so low recently? It seems to be barely
> > featured for lots of common searches, whereas various snapshots and
> > Wikipedia mirrors are indexed frequently. For example:
> > 
>
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=prime+minister+of+the++united+kingdom&fsrc=
1&oi=moresources
> >
> > 
> http://www.google.com.au/search?q=Australia+capital&fsrc=1&oi=moresources
> > (those are question answers, but thats what many people may look for).
> >
> > With Wikipedia being such a popular site, I'd have thought that it
> > might be higher.
> 
> I imagine the Google spider doesn't wait around five minutes
> hoping for the page to come up. Many times it just has to cache
> the empty page from wikipedia.org <http://wikipedia.org>, can't be good 
> for our
> page rank vs quick-responding mirrors.
> 
> Stan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 22:46:20 +0200
From: Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Corrected (Wollmann)
To: wikien-l at wikipedia.org
Message-ID: <4283C09C.3000606 at yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Poor, Edmund W a écrit:
> Why not write a Wikipedia about Wollman, if he's that fascinating? If it
> survives the VFD process, than that might give us an excuse to mention
> him via a link from kooks newsgroup. But if it fails a vfd vote, that's
> pretty conclusive evidence that he's "non-notable".
> 
> Ed

Admitedly... I am surprised his article was deleted for him being non 
notable... while at the same time he is mentionned in another article 
(which seems to imply he is...).

But maybe this is not an argument for notability ?

Ant

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 22:47:19 +0200
From: Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Corrected (Wollmann)
To: wikien-l at wikipedia.org
Message-ID: <4283C0D7.2090807 at yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

David Gerard a écrit:
> Anthere (anthere9 at yahoo.com) [050513 03:34]:
> 
> 
>>While I would just not answer anything at all, the problem is that he is 
>>calling by phone Terry. And while it is easy not to answer a mail, it is 
>>not so easy not to answer a phone call.
> 
> 
> 
> She asks him to hereby stop calling and write a proper legal threat (on
> paper, from proper lawyer, signed for, etc.) if he has one to make. He
> keeps calling, it's harassment.
> 
> 
> - d.

You have a point...
We might suggest that he (Terry is a man...) record the discussions...

Ant

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 07:17:18 +1000
From: David Gerard <fun at thingy.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: Corrected (Wollmann)
To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Message-ID: <20050512211717.GR9978 at thingy.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Poor, Edmund W (Edmund.W.Poor at abc.com) [050513 06:20]:

> Why not write a Wikipedia about Wollman, if he's that fascinating? If it
> survives the VFD process, than that might give us an excuse to mention
> him via a link from kooks newsgroup. But if it fails a vfd vote, that's
> pretty conclusive evidence that he's "non-notable".

You haven't been around VFD much lately, I take it. It's not just an immune
system but an autoimmune disease; people appear to be trying to use it as
Wikipedia's quality control system.

- d.

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 07:18:14 +1000
From: David Gerard <fun at thingy.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: Corrected (Wollmann)
To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Message-ID: <20050512211814.GS9978 at thingy.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Anthere (anthere9 at yahoo.com) [050513 06:47]:
> Poor, Edmund W a écrit:

> >Why not write a Wikipedia about Wollman, if he's that fascinating? If it
> >survives the VFD process, than that might give us an excuse to mention
> >him via a link from kooks newsgroup. But if it fails a vfd vote, that's
> >pretty conclusive evidence that he's "non-notable".

> Admitedly... I am surprised his article was deleted for him being non 
> notable... while at the same time he is mentionned in another article 
> (which seems to imply he is...).
> But maybe this is not an argument for notability ?

"Notability" STILL isn't a deletion criterion.

- d.

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 07:19:49 +1000
From: Jason Trickey <jason at mydomain.com.au>
Subject: Re: Scope of phone support, (was [WikiEN-l] Re: Corrected
	(Wollmann))
To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20050513071632.02247390 at mail.mydomain.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed

Make, and enforce policy of not supporting any encyclopedia content over 
the phone. Refer him back to this list if need be :)

Reserve phone usage for media and press enquiries and other business needs 
only. Content issues should be dealt with in writing.

Cheers,

-j

>David Gerard a écrit:
>>Anthere (anthere9 at yahoo.com) [050513 03:34]:
>>
>>>While I would just not answer anything at all, the problem is that he is 
>>>calling by phone Terry. And while it is easy not to answer a mail, it is 
>>>not so easy not to answer a phone call.
>>
>>She asks him to hereby stop calling and write a proper legal threat (on
>>paper, from proper lawyer, signed for, etc.) if he has one to make. He
>>keeps calling, it's harassment.
>>
>>- d.
>
>You have a point...
>We might suggest that he (Terry is a man...) record the discussions...
>
>Ant
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>WikiEN-l mailing list
>WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 22:20:59 +0100 (BST)
From: "Tony Sidaway" <minorityreport at bluebottle.com>
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: Corrected (Wollmann)
To: <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Message-ID:
	<21618.62.252.0.4.1115932859.squirrel at happy.minority-report.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Ray Saintonge said:
>
> If Mr. Wollmann thinks that he has a case let him go ahead with it, and
>  show us that he means more than simply to intimidate.  We can easily
> promise that when we receive the court documents in the case we will
> reconsider our position in the matter.  This may or may not result in a
>  removal of what he finds offensive from the site.  Meanwhile it will
> have been very costly for him to mount his case with no prospects of
> recovering those costs.

Well, Wikipedia probably wouldn't be vulnerable, but where individuals are
involved he could get a default judgement in a plaintiff-friendly UK court
for a no-show defendant in the US, with costs awarded (which is very
common in UK cases), and then use that as leverage in the US.  This
technique has been tried against Usenet posters and worked well.  Since
Wikipedia content is produced by individuals who are often identifiable it
would probably work as well on Wikipedia.
He may have to demonstrate standing to sue in UK courts, but that could be
as simple as selling books through Amazon.co.uk--which Wollmann does, as
it happens.

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 22:24:07 +0100 (BST)
From: "Tony Sidaway" <minorityreport at bluebottle.com>
Subject: RE: [WikiEN-l] Re: Corrected (Wollmann)
To: <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Message-ID:
	<40692.62.252.0.4.1115933047.squirrel at happy.minority-report.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Poor, Edmund W said:
> Why not write a Wikipedia about Wollman, if he's that fascinating? If
> it survives the VFD process, than that might give us an excuse to
> mention him via a link from kooks newsgroup. But if it fails a vfd
> vote, that's pretty conclusive evidence that he's "non-notable".
>

Been there, done that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Edmond_Wollmann

------------------------------

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End of WikiEN-l Digest, Vol 22, Issue 33
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