[WikiEN-l] More benefits of RK's bad behavior

Sat Oct 4 14:22:05 UTC 2003

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 22:49:11 -0400
From: Brian Corr <BCorr at NEAction.org>
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] More benefits of RK's bad
behaivor 

>I don't think anyone should underestimate the power
he has had to drive people away -- or at the very
least make them feel they are not welcome to "edit
this page." Whatever the outcomes of this situation
with are, I hope people will take my story into
consideration as you decide.

>A bit of history on me: I'm still pretty new to
Wikipedia: I made my first edits without registering
in June

I think your experience is very interesting. 
There might be something that escape some of the old
contributors around, so I would like to add something
to your comment.

When I had my issues with RK, issues for which I think
we both were right and wrong at the same time, I did
not know him. Sure enough, I was not new, but taking
care of my own business. I saw him writing a couple of
times on ML, but on topics which did not interest me
somehow, so I did not read them. Hence I knew not his
personality at all. Somehow, I was a newbie in dealing
with him.

Should it happen today, I know I would do things
differently. I was not white myself, and can only
thank Wapcaplet, 168 and Slrubenstein for helping both
of us to come to an agreement.

I look with interest at the comments from some here,
supporting RK, and I don't remember them having help
in any way to resolve dispute. I think that no one
should support RK staying without agreeing to help
others to deal with him.

It is a bit like when one save someone from drowning,
one hold responsibility of him thereafter.

I spent precious hours trying to argue with RK, trying
to prove he was just throwing falsities to my face,
turning my sentences up and around, to conclude I was
lying on things I had never said. And sure enough, not
knowing he was used to this kind of action, I spend a
lot of energy, trying to clean myself of dishonnest
accusations. When all there was to do really, was to
solve the issue about the articles.

I know this *now* and I know most here are aware of
this behavior, so I care little. And by default, all
his accusations against some one else, I consider
falsities. That is a bit of a generalization perhaps,
but most of time, it is right.

But, if I and other old hands know that, and perhaps
some of us think we can live with it, newbies don't.
Old hands should place themselves in the skin of a
newcomer, placed alone in front of amazing RK.

Not every newbie is an old usenet guy. Not every
newbie can "guess" it is just a pecularity of RK to
say to others they are vandals, should be banned, are
mentally disturbed, sick-minded, should seek external
help, are liers, nazis, and so one. Mind you, some
editors may be very interesting for the project, bring
wonderful stuff, but not be prepared to face such an
amount of hard comments.

And for these reasons, those supported RK among us,
should engage themselves
* to help thin skin people
* to explain to them how RK is, and reassure them on
their sanity and fitness to the project
* manage edit war crisis
* assume mediation with RK and the ones attacked

One can't support RK, have him welcome back, and then
just quietly go away.

>And by the way, I'm an African American, and none of
my interactions with RK left me with the feeling that
I and my ideas were very welcome in the project, but I
don't expect that people will defer to me on issues of

race because of that -- I think I have to make my case
stand on its own merits -- and I don't assume that RK
is a racist because I think some of his views on race
are biased in my opinion. So I bit my lip and kept
going. 

That is good. I am glad you feel that way.

I am not so good at that and do not work on en much
any more.

I am perhaps also an exception among all those who had
a disagreement with RK : he never said I was an
anti-semite or a nazi ! ;-)

>As a new person, I don't feel like I have any
standing to vote for or against banning RK, but I will
say that I will be far more likely to contribute to
articles on race and politics if I don't think that RK
might 
(will) revert my edits and deride my writing -- and
me. 

Everyone has a right to stand for or against a vote as
long as they know RK imho.

A last point : I feel very troubled that part of the
argument against RK exclusion is that he is a
counterweight to Steve. Thus leading to accusations
against Steve. That is really dishonestly shifting the
discussion away from RK, to move the issue toward
another person.

We all are pov sometimes. RK just as others. I don't
think his ponctual povs are reason for exclusion. His
behavior is. And Steve is sometimes a bit "the word
escape me here", but never had RK behavior. Afaik.

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