[Foundation-l] MediaWiki 1.7.1 and Wikipedia

Mon Jul 10 22:06:47 UTC 2006

Tim Starling wrote:

>Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
>  
>
>>2.  Has Dependencies on PHP 5.0.0 (5.1.4).  php 5 is a bug infested 
>>experimental release which does not have consistent installs on the 
>>commerical
>>Linux distributions, including Red Hat ES 4, Suse 10, etc, crashes on 
>>apache, is poorly documented, and has a slew of defects, is difficult to 
>>install and configure. 
>>    
>>
>
>PHP 4 is infested with bugs too, the difference is that the PHP devs refuse 
>to backport fixes for them. PHP 5 has had 18 releases now, over the course 
>of 3 years, and is widely available on commercial web hosts.
>
>It's not the first time we've required PHP updates, we dropped support for 
>PHP 4.1.x and then later 4.2.x.
>
>  
>
>>What should happen in the future:
>>
>>1.  MediaWiki needs to post releases against commercial Linux distros 
>>and not a "roll your own" with a patchwork of patches and fixes.  As it 
>>stands,
>>MediaWiki 1.7.1 is not installable or usable on RedHat ES4 or FC5 
>>without major patching and recompiling -- steps outside the skills of 
>>most folks
>>who need to use Wikipedia content. 
>>2.  Wikimedia needs to enforce MediaWiki releases to allow seamless 
>>importing and use of XML dumps and content.
>>    
>>
>
>I wasn't aware that the linux distros weren't including PHP 5 yet. Here's 
>Wikimedia's install script in case it helps:
>
>http://noc.wikimedia.org/~tstarling/install-php
>
>It should work on FC 3, 4 and maybe 5.
>
>  
>
>>My 2 cents.
>>
>>I spend currently about 40% of my time getting around MediaWiki problems 
>>with Wikipedia XML dumps, and 60% of my time actually working on Native 
>>language translations.  The Uto-Aztecan language is being added at 
>>present as the Ute and Unita tribes have joined the WikiGadugi project.  
>>It would be nice if the MediaWiki folks would give more thought to 
>>ensuring their software works properly before posting releases, and the 
>>Wikimedia Foundation needs to enforce compatibilty between its published 
>>XML dumps and make certain they work properly with released MediaWiki 
>>versions.  As it stands, the current setup almost appears 
>>anti-competitive by design to prevent folks from creating Wiki's of 
>>Wikipedia content (though I do not believe this is intentional on the 
>>part of Wikimedia).   
>>
>>The "we are community driven" excuse only works if the community is also 
>>the customer and end consumer of Wikipedia content, which it is not.  
>>Anything we can do to make all of our jobs easier and more pleasant is 
>>appreciated.
>>    
>>
>
>MediaWiki is primarily written for Wikimedia, development has always been 
>driven by Wikimedia's needs. It's no coincidence that we dropped PHP 4 
>support not long after we upgraded the Wikimedia cluster to PHP 5. MediaWiki 
>is not "community driven" if you take the community to be the external 
>sysadmin community. It is driven by the community of Wikimedia users.
>
>I don't know what your problem with the XML dumps is, but I'm sure if there 
>is a problem with the format then it can be fixed. If you tell us what it 
>is, of course.
>
>Nod to Brion and Domas, I seem to be repeating some of the points they have 
>made.
>
>-- Tim Starling
>
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>
>  
>
Thanks for the script. This helps and I appreciate it.

Jeff