Im uncertain what Fred's point is here -- is he feeding/petting a troll, or
criticizing Jules for acting out of upstanding reason and putting her foot down on
Bob's "victim me" sort of behaviour? I dont want unnecesarily ruffle
feathers here -- it wont do any good -- I'm just pointing out that the one with the
most puffy, ornately ruffled feathers doesnt deserve by default the upper hand. Catering
to certain people to make certian people they feel good about themselves is unquestionably
irrelevant to the problem of people slandering others for what we loosely call
"racism."
-S-
Fred Bauder <fredbaud(a)ctelco.net> wrote:
Robert,
You are correct. However misguided and offensive your "science" perspective
is; it has nothing to do with your being Jewish or having whatever opinions
you may have on Zionism, etc. However you got trapped into having to defend
yourself is irrelevant.
They are picking on you and should stop. Anti-Semitism is indeed
unacceptable behaviour whatever excuse may be found for it.
I do wish you had picked someone besides Jules to straighten out though.
She's just about had it too.
Fred
From: Robert
Reply-To: wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:21:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org
Subject: [WikiEN-l] Unacceptable behaviour
Jules writes:
I looked at the last comments that RK said he
removed
from his talk page. Although the one from E of T was
a bit inflammatory, it seemed to be a response to one
of Roberts own "attacks" -- I infer a typically
one-sided and less than tactful comment he made about
someone else's work. If my inference or
characterization are incorrect, I apologise.
Jules, I really wish you had made an effort to ascertain
the truth; as it turns out, your idea is totally off base.
In point of fact, I was writing comments about creationism,
evolution, speciation, genetics and cooperating with others
on classifying our Gaia theory articles. These are science
issues.
I ask you: What kind of people see such mundane science
discussions as appropriate for denunciations of my
perceived views on the Israeki-Palestinian issue?
What kind of obsessed person thinks the appropriate
response to a discussion on genetics is something like "But
you Zionists should stop oppressing Palestinians".
Am I mistaken here? Is evolution now "anti-Arab"? Is Gaia
theory now pro-Zionist? Come off it. Let's talk about
speciation and transitional fossils, as I was doing on
Wikipedia. Wait! Doesn't this call for remarks about the
Palestinians?
No.
At least, not to someone who doesn't have a grudge against
a Wikipedia contributor, because he is Jewish.
No matter what topic I write about, certain people simply
ignore the topic, and drag the Zionists (i.e. the Jews)
into this. They are not trying to produce encyclopedia
quality work; they are out to score points, hurt people,
and make themselves feel "liberal".
The comment made by Pizza Puzzle may have been
*personally* offensive to
Robert, but it is simply a statement of PP's
own opinion
on the
situation. I may not be popular, but he is
entitled to
it.
No, he is not entitled to keep harassing me on my own
personal User page about his political views, especially
when I am trying to work with others on some science
articles.
Presumably user talk pages are meant to be places
where
we communicate with
each other in public -- so I don't see why
there is a
problem.
So if you are white, then white-haters can taunt you
repeatedly on your User page, and you won't have a problem
with it?
Zoe is gone due to similar harassment. A few of my other
Jewish friends visited (teachers, PhD.s, etc.)...and left
quickly, sensing a bit too much self-righteous left-wing
animosity towards Jews. (And those same Jews were
themselves rather left wing.) They think I am nuts for
staying here.
If RK doesn't like a comment, he can erase it
-- as he
did -- but
it's a pain in the arse to have to look it up
in the
history.
No, I can't! You totally missed the point. When I tried to
erase the comment, I was slandered as an Arabophobe.
That, by the way, is untrue. I happen to have lived for
two years with a Muslim Arab from Morocco, and had Muslim
Palestinian friends in graduate school, and I also happen
to support Israeli political parties that are to the left
of the current government. I also have particiapted on
numerous occasions with interfaith Muslim-Jewish prayer
groups, and my synagogue is considered somewhat progressive
for precisely this sort of thing.
I am, however, opposed to what the U.S. State Department
condemns as Palestinian terrorism...and this last fact
alone has caused me to be repeatedly slandered as a bigot,
as a racist, etc. And no one on Wikipedia objects to these
false characterizations of me. But what this has to do
with speciation, creationism and evolution, I'll never
know!
It seems pretty clear to me that many people on Wikipedia
do not care if one is pro-tolerance and pro-Arab or not.
Facts don't matter one whit to one whose conclusions are
based only in prejudice. All that many Wikipedians care
about is constant proving how evil the Zionist (read:
"Jewish") position is, even if they haven't the slightest
fucking idea what I actually do or believe.
But my disagreement is less that RK is phobic of
Arabs,
but instead
is overly sensitive, perhaps even paranoid, about
anything that isn't
vehemently pro-Israeli/pro-Zionist.
Sorry, Jules, but I disagree. GENETICS AND SPECIATION ARE
NOT PRO-ZIONIST. Sorry for shouting, please look at the
topics I was working on, and compare them to the comments.
Do you see any relation? Of course not; there isn't one.
People are lashing out at me simply because I am a Jew.
That is not paranoia. It is, however, unacceptable.
I thus ask you to reconsider your comments.
Robert (RK)
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