Please don't say 'our', you reflect views of yourself and can not in
any capacity represent all of en.wp. While I know and dislike some of
jayjg's actions and realize he has done things which are infact
questionable and morally wrong. He is still a good editor and has made
a number of good faith contributions to this project. He atleast in my
eyes is welcome to stay and contribute. If you have an issue with him
using tools, in a way he shouldn't then please take that up directly
to him or another authority, or establish the ability to recall an
editors mop/various bits.
I'll go back to waiting on my flight and hope to see you at wikimania.
-Josh/Somitho
On 8/1/07, Michael Noda <michael.noda(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/1/07, jayjg <jayjg99(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/1/07, John Lee <johnleemk(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> I'll second everything Bryan says. I don't agree that Jay, ElinorD, et
al,
> ought to take a wikibreak, but we do need to
take a step back and chill
out.
Huh? What does this have to do with me? I thought Andrew was
suggesting the people who insist on discussing this on the list and on
Wikipedia should take a break.
On 8/1/07, jayjg <jayjg99(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/1/07, Andrew Gray <shimgray(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On 01/08/07, jayjg <jayjg99(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
I don't see any good coming from giving into
trolls and stalkers. The
fact that a bunch of disgruntled, mostly banned ex-Wikipedians like to
spin conspiracy theories, and occasionally disrupt Wikipedia, should
simply be ignored. Not discussed on Wikipedia, not discussed here,
just ignored.
"Ignored" is one thing. "Silenced" just feeds the fire.
I note this thread began because a debate about Slim's identity, and
the massive efforts gone to to conceal edits associated with her, *was
on the front page of slashdot*. (Slashdot. Not Wikipedia Review, or
Encyclopedia Dramatica, or anyone else; Slashdot, perhaps a classic
example of our "natural supporters".) This led to a large amount of
curiosity amongst our community. But a small group of people cracked
down heavily on anyone trying to say "what the fuck is going on here?"
on the wiki... which just further encouraged speculation about those
efforts to conceal something.
If you honestly don't see that this sort of behaviour is wasteful,
counterproductive, inflammatory and - in the long run - just poisoning
our reputation, then I am afraid my complaints are hopeless. But, by
god, they were worth making.
At some point in the past, people fucked up, made enemies or handled
something badly or just been unlucky in who they dealt with. Things
have moved on, and developed, and we're now in a situation where they
have no choice but to look foolish, or keep harming the project. The
only reasonable solution here is for them to stop and walk away.
Sooner or later, they have to realise this.
I will say it again - the people we are looking bad to now aren't the
people who already thought the worst of us. We're now beginning to
look like incompetent spiteful twerps to neutral third parties, and I
see no indication it's ever going to improve. Essjay got us faintly
amused newspaper coverage - what will "Wikipedia Covers Up Unknown
Misdemeanours" look like?
The project is bigger than them, it is more important than a username,
and I will not stand by to see it dragged down to protect their pride.
Frankly, I don't really know what you're talking about any more,
Andrew. The people who look bad are those promoting this nonsense, and
those who insist on continually re-hashing it on Wikipedia and the
mailing list. Enough navel-gazing; go build an encyclopedia.
Jay, the "who, me?" attitude you are taking is getting tiresome. Do
you really not realize the damage you have done to your own
reputation, and the project's? Either you do, in which case your
continuing to be inflammatory towards fellow editors and trolls alike
is inexcusable, or you do not, in which case you have not yet heard
the patient explanations and pleas of your fellow editors.
Assuming the latter: Your actions have been counter-productive to any
goals you may have had in mind while taking them. The endless
discussions that you help generate are drowning out useful
collaboration internally, and advocacy and goodwill for the project
externally. While the long service you have given this project is
vast and will always be appreciated, I for one can no longer in good
conscience ask you to stay; both you and the project need for you to
step back, and let fresher hands take up your work. Go, with our
blessing.
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