[Wikipedia-l] Moldovan wikipedia, again

Wed Jun 28 12:47:07 UTC 2006

Sounds like an utter mess.  Thanks so much for taking the time to explain it
to me, even if I'm still not sure why it's such a big issue =O

On 6/27/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Probably not. Dpotop's original message assumed that everyone was
> already familiar with the situation.
>
> I will give a brief summary, trying to be unbiased -- i.e., I will
> include the points of view of some of my opponents.
>
> Some background --
>
> According to some people, Moldovan is a synonym for Romanian.
> According to some people, the Cyrillic alphabet was imposed on the
> Moldovan ASSR by Stalin. According to others, the Cyrillic alphabet
> was in continuous use in the MASSR thruought its history with an
> exception of 15 years in the interwar period.
>
> There are additional (and mostly irrelvant) arguments about whether or
> not Moldovan was created as a separate language from Romanian by
> Stalin, or whether it developed naturally.
>
> That aside, the main issue here seems to be use of the Cyrillic script.
>
> According to some people, nobody uses the Cyrillic script to write
> this language anymore. According to other people, all people who use
> the script are forced to against their will. According to yet others,
> there are people who use the script by choice.
>
> According to all parties involved, "Moldovan" using the Cyrillic
> script is one of 3 official languages of Transnistria. What is
> disputed, however, is the status of Transnistria. Please see
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria for details.
>
> Some people have gone so far as to say a Wikipedia using Cyrillic
> script is an insult "to all Romanians who died" at the hands of Stalin
> for the Latin alphabet, although that is a bit of a stretch.
>
> Another contentious issue is the quality of the Wikipedia. There have
> been allegations of poor grammar, misspellings, etc., but the people
> who claim they exist don't bother to point them out or fix them.
>
> You may judge the quality of the articles yourself, see
> http://mo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Randompage
>
> There are other issues, for example the villification of yours truly
> by the other side as "an evil stalinistic KGB Jewish-American Russian
> agent who does not know Romanian". Perhaps not in the same sentence,
> but I have been called all of the above at some point or another in
> some language.
>
> Ironically, the "does not know Romanian" part is usually accused in
> Romanian, and I understand it. (To be fair, Danutz would beg to differ
> -- he claims to have "figured out" how I supposedly use a machine
> translator to read and write)
>
> Mark
>
> On 27/06/06, mboverload <mboverload at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Am I the only one here that is completely an utterly confused?
> >
> > mboverload_confused
> >
> > On 6/27/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Now, here's some proof of deception.
> > >
> > > Jacky/Dpotop claims here that the reasoning behind the proposal to
> > > close the Moldovan Wikipedia is that there are no native contributors
> > > (which is no longer true exactly).
> > >
> > > As this message from an ally of his, Dapiks/Constanteanu shows, this
> > > is not the case; rather it is politically motivated:
> > >
> > > "Buna,
> > >
> > > A inceput un vot pentru stergerea "Wikipediei Moldovenesti", o creatie
> > > a unui Evreu-American, cu origini suspecte in Basarabia si care nu
> > > vorbeste limba wikipediei la care pretinde a fi sysop. Il cheama Node
> > > ue si pentru a crea impresia ca lumea doreste aceasta wikipedie, a
> > > apelat la toti utilizatorii rusi care au venit sa voteze de partea lui
> > > desi nu cunosc bine subiectul si li s-a spus ca voteaza pentru
> > > supravietuirea alfabetului chirilic. Asa a ajuns ca votul sa fie 31
> > > pentru stergerea Mo wiki, si 42 impotriva stergerii - deci in alte
> > > cuvinte pentru pastrarea wikipediei in limba "moldoveneasca". Vino si
> > > voteaza aici[1] , ca sa sergem acesta creatura cu miros bolshevic,
> > > care insulta toti romanii de pe ambele maluri ale Prutului. Node ue
> > > le-a spus rusilor sa traduca mesajul lui in limba rusa si sa-l
> > > transmita mai departe. Trimite si tu mesajul acesta la toti
> > > utilizatorii romani-unionisti sau romani-moldoveni unionisti pe care-i
> > > cunosti pe en.wiki sau ro.wiki. Dapiks 23:36, 23 June 2006 (UTC)"
> > >
> > > Hopefully some of you can guess what this means, but I will give you a
> > > summary of what he said.
> > >
> > > He says that a vote has begun for the deletion of the "Moldovan
> > > Wikipedia" (in quotes), notes that it is the "creation of a
> > > Jewish-American with possible origins in Bessarabia" (Bessarabia is a
> > > historical term here used in a derogatory context to refer to the
> > > modern-day Republic of Moldova). He goes on to say that the
> > > Jewish-American's name is "Node ue", and that this person has "called
> > > all Russian users to vote on his side even though they do not know the
> > > subject well". He then notes the current number of votes in a
> > > belittling manner. He goes on to urge people to come and vote to
> > > delete "this ugly Bolshevik creation which insults all Romanians on
> > > both sides of the Pruth".
> > >
> > > The particularly political part is at the end when he says "Send this
> > > message also to all Romanian or Romano-Moldovan unionist users which
> > > you know on en.wiki or mo.wiki."
> > >
> > > An urge to spread a message to only people of a certain political
> > > background seems unacceptable. Yes, I did post at the village pump of
> > > the Russian Wikipedia and request a message to be translated into
> > > Russian (according to some Romanians, my message was anti-Romanian and
> > > deceptive, however when Dpotop posted a counter-argument, most
> > > Russians continued to maintain previous opinions). However, I
> > > encouraged EVERYONE to vote, which ultimately included one Russian
> > > user who voted for the closing of mo.wikipedia.
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > > On 24/06/06, Jacky PB <dpotop1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello everybody,
> > > >
> > > > Remember, you decided to leave the Moldovan wikipedia freezed, but
> not
> > > completely deleted. Now, its unique contributor [[:en:User:Node_ue]],
> is
> > > back (probably on school holiday), with his anti-Romanian edits. I
> cite from
> > > [[:mo:Wikipedia_talk:Administrator]]:
> > > >
> > > > <i> Please don't write in Romanian here, write Moldovan. Every time
> you
> > > write Romanian on the Moldovan wikipedia, god kills a kitten. </i>
> > > >
> > > > No to mention that he initiated a vote to become again sysop, then
> tried
> > > to falsify the results (because they were not favourable). The current
> > > version of the page [[:mo:Wikipedia:Administrator]] is that rigged by
> > > Node_ue, but take a look at the history on the vote page [
> > >
> http://mo.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrator&oldid=11594
> ],
> > > which shows the true result of the vote according to the original
> rules set
> > > by Node_ue.
> > > >
> > > > After this, he managed to invite the entire Russian wikipedia to
> take
> > > position on a language they know nothing about here: [[:meta:Proposals
> for
> > > closing projects]]. Take a look at his post here
> > > [[:ru:Википедия:Форум/Новости#Moldovan]], and notice the blatant lie
> > > concerning the cyrillic script (whereas the problem is in fact the
> absence
> > > of Moldovan editors).
> > > >
> > > > In the meantime, Node_ue is copying articles from ro.wiki to mo.wikiand
> > > pretends they are in a different language.
> > > >
> > > > It must be noted that he is the only one on the entire wikipedia
> (all
> > > wikipedias took together) to pretend speaking a "Moldovan language"
> > > different from the Romanian one. Just take a look at
> [[:en:Category:User
> > > mo]], [[:mo:Category:User mo]], [[:ro:Category:User mo]],
> > > [[:ru:Category:User mo]].
> > > >
> > > > Moreover he himself places himself at level mo-2. I can assure you
> this
> > > guy isn't able to write correct text in Moldovan. Any native Moldovan
> can
> > > tell you the same  (in fact, this is why he keeps copying articles
> from
> > > ro.wiki).
> > > >
> > > > While no native Moldovan editor exists, the Moldovan wikipedia will
> > > continue to be a political statement that exacerbates nationalisms
> from
> > > Romania, Russia, and Moldova itself, and a playground for clever and
> stupid
> > > trolls.
> > > >
> > > > It should be closed until a native Moldovan editor requires its
> > > re-opening and assumes admin rights.
> > > >
> > > > This argument has already been put forward here [[:meta:Proposals
> for
> > > closing projects#What decision makers need to know]].
> > > >
> > > > Yours sincerely,
> > > > [[:en:User:Dpotop]], [[:ro:User:Dpotop]]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
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> > >
> > >
> > > --
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