[Wikipedia-l] Where are the decision makers?

Tue Jul 4 12:07:29 UTC 2006

   From the BBC article posted way way back on this thread it appears 
that the schools for ethnically Moldavian children in Transdniester 
actually use the Latin script if they can, and some times they do it 
when they are officially being persecuted.  At least that is what the 
article said.  As far as I can tell the (non-moldavian speaking) people 
in power are trying (unsuccessfully) to impose this script.  Now it 
probably is likely older people in the region still use it and its 
probably in public use but I am not sure you can say that its in many 
schools. At least not to a point where students are learning it to the 
exclusion of the Latin based script.

SKL

Mark Williamson wrote:
> It incorrectly represents Moldova? Come on!
> 
> Wikipedia uses language as a MEDIUM. If somebody wants to know about
> the language, they would go to
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_language or
> http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldau or whichever language they speak
> article.
> 
> They will NOT go to mo.wikipedia.
> 
> And you are clearly not in touch with reality. In schools east of the
> Dniestr river, which teach Moldovan, the Cyrillic alphabet is taught.
> This fact is a fact and you cannot contest it. This is the usual
> script.
> 
> Now, unless you want to challenge the territorial integrity of
> Moldova, it seems reasonable to accept that Moldova is, in fact, a
> biscriptal nation.
> 
> As Gerard noted, mo-cyr is not acceptable because it violates conventions.
> 
> Mark
> 
> On 04/07/06, Liviu Andronic <landronimirc at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is what would reasonably happen, Mark. In my opinion, of course.
>>
>> Currently people "give a damn" because it represents incorreclty Moldova.
>> Personally, I cannot stand when my country is represented n'*importe comment
>> * on Wikipedia.
>>
>> We don't use this writing, Mark. Apart from exceptions, nowhere. This
>> writing, for all areas of life, is a reality of the past. And do not try to
>> discredit my words stating that "he is not in Moldova". I lived my whole
>> life in Moldova, which makes, roughly, 20 years. I read news. I return to
>> Moldova at least one time per year. I know what happens there. We don't use
>> this writing. Other Moldovans that are currently in Moldova could easily
>> backup this.
>>
>> If you want to write articles, I have nothing against it. Moving all you
>> have done on mo.wikipedia.org to mo-cyr.wikipedia.org would in no way
>> interrupt your work. And your work would cease disturbing people
>> concerned.
>>
>> But enough on this. Let's see the way the current
>> vote<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects#Closure_of_Moldovan_Wikipedia>on
>> meta ends.
>>
>> On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Is that a threat?
>>>
>>> Why should anyone "give a damn" now? What reason is there for people
>>> to not just ignore it and work on the Romanian Wikipedia? Really,
>>> there is no good reason. Any good Wikipedian should focus on fixing
>>> articles, writing new articles, etc., instead of fussing about
>>> something like this.
>>>
>>> I just want to write articles, but you and your friends insist on
>>> interrupting.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> On 04/07/06, Liviu Andronic <landronimirc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Everyone will start ignoring it, as soon as the Moldovan Wikipedia gets
>>> out
>>>> of the mo.wikipedia.org domain. No one would give a damn about it.
>>>>
>>>> On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com > wrote:
>>>>> Would it really make everyone happy?
>>>>>
>>>>> No.
>>>>>
>>>>> There would still be people whinging endlessly that it should be
>>>>> closed and/or deleted.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark
>>>>>
>>>>> On 03/07/06, Liviu Andronic < landronimirc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I agree that simple ignoring of this project would make it disappear
>>> in
>>>>> a
>>>>>> one-two year time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What the you do not get is that there is one simple solution: move
>>> mo to
>>>>>> mo-cyr. And everyone gets happy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is this so difficult?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/2/06, Gerard Meijssen < gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hoi,
>>>>>>> You do not get it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is an annoyance. One of the points made is that the Moldovan
>>>>>>> wikipedia is just trolling. Consider what makes a troll thrive;
>>>>>>> attention. The more attention that you give it, ANY attention the
>>> more
>>>>>>> it will get entrenched. There is this saying: "I do not care what
>>> they
>>>>>>> say about me as long as they write my name correctly", all this
>>>>>>> attention makes the mo.wikipedia "relevant". If it is not
>>> relevant,
>>>>>>> refrain from giving it attention and at some time it will just
>>>>>>> evaporate. If it does not, it cannot be considered trolling and
>>> you
>>>>> are
>>>>>>> plain wrong.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The best thing for you to do: shut up. Ignore this project.
>>> Everybody
>>>>>>> will be happier and maybe you will be proven to be right.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>     GerardM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Liviu Andronic wrote:
>>>>>>>> I would have to object to the position taken by people who can
>>> make
>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> difference.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IMHO, all this Moldovan issue annoys you as much as it does me.
>>> I do
>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> want to dispute on this, as much as you do not want to read all
>>> this
>>>>>>> junk.
>>>>>>>> I am wondering if the Moldovan Wikipedia is such unimportant an
>>>>> issue. I
>>>>>>>> agree that it is a rarely used Wikipedia. And still, for an
>>>>> unimportant
>>>>>>>> Wikipedia, it does create a lot of headache to the entire
>>> community.
>>>>> If
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> issue flames every three months on this mailing list and on all
>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>> Talk pages and triggers revert-wars on related English and
>>> Moldovan
>>>>>>>> Wikipedia articles, then I believe that there is obviously a
>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>>> Not that this entire dispute be fair or ethical - it is a dirty
>>> war
>>>>> that
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> personally detest -, but is it an ethically correct position for
>>>>> those
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>> can make a difference to just ignore?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it so unimportant that a whole Wikipedia section could create
>>>>>>> confusion
>>>>>>>> and desinformation? Isn't Wikipedia supposed to provide a "free
>>>>>>> encyclopedia
>>>>>>>> of the highest possible quality"?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Personally for me, it is strange how people with the ability to
>>> take
>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> implement a decision, simply choose to ignore. All possible and
>>>>>>> impossible
>>>>>>>> arguments were already presented here, on the mailing list, and
>>> all
>>>>> over
>>>>>>>> the English and Moldovan Wikipedia, and on Metawiki. What rests
>>> to
>>>>> do is
>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>> common sense to decide on this issue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is even stranger for me the way a decision already taken by
>>>>> stewards
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> bureaucrats was simply ignored and not implemented.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But, then, it is up to the decision-makers to decide the stance
>>> to
>>>>>>> adopt. I
>>>>>>>> still hope that they will choose as soon as possible to stop
>>>>>>> deliberately
>>>>>>>> ignoring this issue. The problem is that this issue will not
>>> cease
>>>>>>>> re-appearing on this mailing-list. My reason for this is that an
>>>>> entire
>>>>>>>> country and population (this makes an approximate 3.5 million
>>>>> persons)
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> incorrectly represented on Wikipedia. And one of these, or me -
>>> if
>>>>> no
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>> else does it -, will certainly re-open this discussion in a
>>>>> two-three
>>>>>>> months
>>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you managed to read till this point, thank you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Liviu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 6/30/06, Brion Vibber < brion at pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jacky PB wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No one else is interested in this issue, and getting involved
>>> would
>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>> wasting
>>>>>>>>> a lot of time with people fighting a lot over something
>>>>> unimportant.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>> safest
>>>>>>>>> course is thus to leave a rarely-used wiki sitting there, same
>>> as
>>>>> we do
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> dozens of other rarely-used wikis and nobody minds.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Wikipedia-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Wikipedia-l mailing list
>>>>>>> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>>>>>>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Liviu
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Wikipedia-l mailing list
>>>>>> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>>>>>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikipedia-l mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Liviu
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato.
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Liviu
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
> 
> 