[WikiEN-l] Again, TINC (Was: Potential Wikipedian growing pains)

Wed Sep 21 22:25:12 UTC 2005

TINC, but there are many mini-cabals. :P

On 9/21/05, steve v <vertigosteve at yahoo.com> wrote:
> The use of clique should not be considered a
> pejorative, and may refer just as much to a "web of
> trust" as to a "cabal." I dont make any judgements,
> but rather chose a term which is neutral, and which
> critics as well as core members of the "cabal" (you
> and I ;)) may find agreeable.
>
> TINC, true, but WIND (democracy) is also true. Whether
> one prefers the term "core" or "cabal" is a matter of
> where one is on the map.
> SV
>
> --- Geoff Burling <llywrch at agora.rdrop.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 21 Sep 2005, steve v wrote:
> >
> > > You know, Ill admit there is a certain ambiguity
> > when
> > > we talk about "IAR" as a "stick of dynamite, and
> > as a
> > > valve to allow "decent wikipedians" (our clique)
> > to
> > > trump "trolls, vandals" (undesirables, etc.).
> > >
> > Steve, you just lost a large chunk of credibility
> > with me by using
> > the word "clique".
> >
> > TINC. It's a case of thinking the grass is greener
> > on the other
> > side of the fence: because some people do more work,
> > or are more
> > persuasive in their arguments, other people think
> > that they are
> > part of some ruling clique, complete with a secret
> > Masonic handshake [*]
> > & Get Out of Jail cards.
> >
> > I've been on Wikipedia as long as you, & I don't see
> > any special
> > favors here. I have met only one person here in Real
> > Life, & only
> > know one other person from previous usenet contact
> > -- & I doubt that
> > I have any special clout with them because of it.
> > (Sometimes I
> > doubt anyone even reads my emails to this list --
> > but that's another
> > subject entirely.)
> >
> > And if there was a clique, they'd either moderate
> > this list entirely
> > ("Hey, that ligwitch guy's trying to post again!
> > Silly rabbit, hasn't
> > he learned that he's Not Allowed?"), or ignore it &
> > communicate on
> > their own list or IRC channel.
> >
> > And it's an easier idea to accept than that
> > Wikipedia has grown so
> > much that unless you spend a good chunk of time
> > looking for
> > conversations & disputes, things will happen &
> > decisions will be
> > made that will surprise you. And even if you do
> > extend the effort,
> > these surprises will still happen.
> >
> > At the end of the day, after contributing hours of
> > labor on the
> > dull, unexciting parts of Wikipedia, one might wish
> > there was a
> > cabal or clique when some pissant resurrects the
> > same trivial argument
> > for the upteenth time that her/his POV is not being
> > heard, & that
> > not only could he/she be banned from Wikipedia, but
> > someone sent to
> > the person's home & have their modem & hard drive
> > smashed. But one
> > doesn't, because the other members of this alleged
> > clique would be
> > just as angry at you for high-handedness as the
> > pissant in question.
> >
> > In short, if there was a real ruling clique on
> > Wikipedia, we'd
> > all know it. For one thing, we'd have at least one
> > mediocrity
> > here who would be rubbing the fact that she/he
> > belongs in our faces.
> >
> > </rant>
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > * For the record, I've been shown a Real Masonic
> > Handshake. It's
> > not as interesting as the Monty Python sketch makes
> > it out to be.
> >
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>
>
>
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