[WikiEN-l] Again, TINC (Was: Potential Wikipedian growing pains)

Wed Sep 21 21:22:38 UTC 2005

The use of clique should not be considered a
pejorative, and may refer just as much to a "web of
trust" as to a "cabal." I dont make any judgements,
but rather chose a term which is neutral, and which
critics as well as core members of the "cabal" (you
and I ;)) may find agreeable.

TINC, true, but WIND (democracy) is also true. Whether
one prefers the term "core" or "cabal" is a matter of
where one is on the map.
SV 

--- Geoff Burling <llywrch at agora.rdrop.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Sep 2005, steve v wrote:
> 
> > You know, Ill admit there is a certain ambiguity
> when
> > we talk about "IAR" as a "stick of dynamite, and
> as a
> > valve to allow "decent wikipedians" (our clique)
> to
> > trump "trolls, vandals" (undesirables, etc.).
> >
> Steve, you just lost a large chunk of credibility
> with me by using
> the word "clique".
> 
> TINC. It's a case of thinking the grass is greener
> on the other
> side of the fence: because some people do more work,
> or are more
> persuasive in their arguments, other people think
> that they are
> part of some ruling clique, complete with a secret
> Masonic handshake [*]
> & Get Out of Jail cards.
> 
> I've been on Wikipedia as long as you, & I don't see
> any special
> favors here. I have met only one person here in Real
> Life, & only
> know one other person from previous usenet contact
> -- & I doubt that
> I have any special clout with them because of it.
> (Sometimes I
> doubt anyone even reads my emails to this list --
> but that's another
> subject entirely.)
> 
> And if there was a clique, they'd either moderate
> this list entirely
> ("Hey, that ligwitch guy's trying to post again!
> Silly rabbit, hasn't
> he learned that he's Not Allowed?"), or ignore it &
> communicate on
> their own list or IRC channel.
> 
> And it's an easier idea to accept than that
> Wikipedia has grown so
> much that unless you spend a good chunk of time
> looking for
> conversations & disputes, things will happen &
> decisions will be
> made that will surprise you. And even if you do
> extend the effort,
> these surprises will still happen.
> 
> At the end of the day, after contributing hours of
> labor on the
> dull, unexciting parts of Wikipedia, one might wish
> there was a
> cabal or clique when some pissant resurrects the
> same trivial argument
> for the upteenth time that her/his POV is not being
> heard, & that
> not only could he/she be banned from Wikipedia, but
> someone sent to
> the person's home & have their modem & hard drive
> smashed. But one
> doesn't, because the other members of this alleged
> clique would be
> just as angry at you for high-handedness as the
> pissant in question.
> 
> In short, if there was a real ruling clique on
> Wikipedia, we'd
> all know it. For one thing, we'd have at least one
> mediocrity
> here who would be rubbing the fact that she/he
> belongs in our faces.
> 
> </rant>
> 
> Geoff
> 
> * For the record, I've been shown a Real Masonic
> Handshake. It's
> not as interesting as the Monty Python sketch makes
> it out to be.
> 
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