[WikiEN-l] Public Domain in occupied Iraq

Wed Sep 21 17:14:01 UTC 2005

The below is at [[Image_talk:2UK_soldiers2.jpg]]. Im
curious what the "public" thinks of the issue.
----

I have two questions on the public domain status of
this image. On what basis is this said to be the work
of an Iraqi government employee- it explicitly says
"AFP" on the bottom right. Also, is the work of Iraqi
government employees actually public domain- this is
the situation with the U.S. government, but in most
countries it is not.--Pharos 23:31, 19 September 2005
(UTC)

The image was taken while the agents were in custody.
No evidence or mention suggests that the photo was
itself taken by afp, or any other copyright interested
news agency. The photo has been published elsewhere on
the web in an uncensored form, where there is no
attribution to AFP. It is common practice for news
agencies to claim source rights for images, even
without modifications, as reproductions of photos
which are in fact public domain. For these reasons I
believe the photo is not the property of AFP, but
instead is the work of an Iraqi police officer, taken
in the conduct of official duties. -St|eve 23:43, 19
September 2005 (UTC)

I don't know if it's originally from the AFP or not;
it's quite possible it's from the Iraqi government,
but there is no source for that. More important, there
is no source saying Iraqi govenment photos are PD (in
fact I don't think they are). BTW, if there is an
"uncensored" version (presumably with the faces
unblurred?), why shouldn't we have uploaded that
one?--Pharos 23:54, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Why would they not be public domain? They dont even
currently have an established system of patents and
intellectual property. You're right--I will find a
good uncensored version. -St|eve 23:56, 19 September
2005 (UTC)

The intellectual property produced by most governments
is not public domain- the U.S. is a real exception. I
would guess they're probably operating under the old
Saddam-era copyright system- the previous laws have
not been repealed en masse, and most are still in
operation. We can't just exclude Iraq from the
international system of intellectual property and say
that nothing produced by an Iraqi can be
copyrighted.--Pharos 00:08, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Thats just speculation. We will have to do some
research on Iraqi law. Maybe theres a lawyer we can
reach through wikien. A second photo is at Image:2UK
soldiers2.jpg, by the way. Still looking. -St|eve
00:14, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

It is speculation, but we must presume a photo is
copyrighted unless there is actual evidence it is not.
We can't speculate in the other direction. I'm looking
into the copyright law now; I'm sure it would be
useful to know and not just in this instance.--Pharos
00:26, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Respectfully disagree, and to act within your bounds
would be to completely submit to transitional and
subjective interpretations of law which is equally
transitional. There is a good case to make that the ip
of nations in transition is in the PD, and not the
copyright of any entity. -St|eve 16:47, 21 September
2005 (UTC) 

* Here's a PDF [1] of a 2004 ammendment by Bremer to
the 1971 law. I'm not sure if it may have been
superceded since then by the Iraqi Interim Government
or the Iraqi Transitional Government, but probably
not. No special mention is made of government works,
so we should presume they are copyrighted. Moreover,
look at the official government website, which says "©
2004 Iraqi Transitional Government - All rights
reserved." at the bottom.--Pharos 00:39, 20 September
2005 (UTC)

I would be reluctant to assume that a decree by a
corporate appointee to the leadership position of a
colonial government should be considered the basis for
any laws by which we must abide. Your suggestion of
"probably not" may be true, but only by the most
cynical of rationales. And the notion that a
disclaimer on a government website should be an
indicator of the entirety of ip law in an entire
country is likewise flacid. -St|eve 16:47, 21
September 2005 (UTC) 

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