[WikiEN-l] Re: troubled.

Tue May 11 10:54:18 UTC 2004

I hope everyone will agree that the pictures on the following articles 
are potentially offensive for some readers

* penis on penis article
* clitoris on clitoris article
* Torture and humiliation pictures on the prison article

Among the three cited above, penis pictures, torture and humiliation are 
said informative enough, so that we display the pictures directly.
However, a clitoris is not something informative enough, so, it should 
be hidden.

I would like that we stop applying double standards on the encyclopedia.

If a picture is informative, we keep it. If not, we trash it.

If a picture is extremely offensive, we trash it.
If a picture is generally considered offensive, we apply similar 
standard to all pictures generally considered offensive.
If a picture is not offensive, we show it.

All offensive pictures should be treated the same way and displayed the 
same way. Either we decide we do not care about hurting some 
sensibilities, we display them, and we do this for ALL offensive 
pictures. Or we decide we could care a bit, and we put a link to it, 
instead of full display in the page.

The argument that the clitoris image is not informative enough, as an 
argument for it to be hidden is a NON-ARGUMENT. Either it is informative 
and we apply it the same standard than to all offensive pictures. Or it 
is not informative, and we trash it.

Now, if a clitoris picture is something not interesting, I also would 
like that same standards are applied to all human genitals. If we remove 
the clitoris, we remove the penises as well.

Fred Bauder a écrit:
> Pictures of the clitoris are not displayed to avoid pandering to purient
> interests which apparently (I have not followed this debate) outweighs the
> information value.
> 
> While there may be a few readers who might enjoy pictures of torture and
> putting many of them on Wikipedia would be wrong there is such a strong
> history of people lying about torture that we would not want to part of
> suppression of evidence. Thus there is a very high information value. (We
> finally caught a few of these sonsabitches). There is a point of view
> problem as 99.9% of torture is not photographed thus displaying pictures of
> American torture only (as pictures of Saudi Arabian or Israeli or Turkish or
> Tibetan or [put in your own despotic regime] torture are not available)
> gives a somewhat false impression. It takes a pretty dumb criminal to take
> pictures (or let others take pictures) of themselves while they are
> committing a crime.
> 
> Fred
> 
> 
>>From: Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com>
>>Reply-To: anthere9 at yahoo.com, English Wikipedia <wikien-l-g2DCOkC13y2GglJvpFV4uA at public.gmane.org>
>>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 02:51:44 +0200
>>To: wikien-l at wikipedia.org
>>Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: troubled.
>>
>>We censor pictures of clitoris on the english wikipedia.
>>We censor clitoris pictures, while billion of humans on Earth have a
>>clitoris, and that is something perfectly normal to have.
>>
>>We censor clitoris for the motive that people could be shocked.
>>
>>However, we do not censor pictures of torture and humiliation. Forgive
>>me, but I am troubled.
>>
>>No, I do not think everything should be shown, especially soon after
>>they happen. Just as some criminal trials of WWII horors were recorded,
>>but the records preserved for several years before being shown publicly.
>>This in memory of the deads. Even though we know what happened.
>>
>>So, explain to me why we show shocking images of human humiliation,
>>while we cant display clitoris, because chaste eyes would be shocked ?
>>
>>
>>Fred Bauder a écrit:
>>
>>>They belong. If they allowed picture taking at the Colorado State
>>>Penitentiary or in a prison in France they would belong too. Their
>>>importance is that most torture in prisons happens without pictures being
>>>taken. These pictures have to stand in place of the hundreds or even
>>>thousands of similar situations that don't get recorded. Or is that too
>>>creative?
>>>
>>>Fred
>>
>>
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> 
> l