[WikiEN-l] I really do wish I could talk to Jtdirl

Wed Aug 6 01:08:05 UTC 2003

Jimbo writes:
> Robert, I really think you should moderate your tone,
> because I think that doing so will make your comments
> more effective.

In theory, I agree with you. However, I also agreed with
Jtdirl that these topics (Arab refugees and Jewish
refugees) should be discussed on Wikipedia. That's moderate
as well. I just was shocked by his false claims of
censorship. (Especially since we have more than three
articles discussing this subject!)

When we work together for months to whip articles into
decent shape, it seems inappropriate, and a violation of
Wikipedia policy, to do an end-run around them by starting
a new discussion on the same subject, pushing only Jtdirl's
point of view. I am not the only person who has pointed
this out.

Jimbo writes:
> Making a moral judgment in a case like this is likely to
> turn people off.  And, really, it runs a very strong
> risk of being _not true at all_.  It strikes me as more
> likely that jtdirl is mistaken, rather than actively
> dishonest.  Or that you are mistaken.

Ok, I agree; I could be mistaken. But Jtdirl refuses to
talk to me, so no conversation is possible. You saw for
yourself James Duffy's odd response to my points:

I said we *should* have articles on Arab refugees, but we
should no do an end-run around our peer-rview. I stated
that it is wrong to claim censorship is going on.

Jtdirl (James Duffy) responded, stop calling me an
anti-Semite!  And then Jtdirl started talking about
Jerusalem.

Huh? His statements have absolutely no relationship to what
is being said to him. He is in his own little world, and
that kind of freaks me out.  I get the idea that people
read his letter, and respond to his false claims about
me...even though my letter said nothing about what he
mentions!

It would be very easy to smooth things over, but that is
impossible until his responses respond to what I actually
write. (That is a truism, no?)

On a separate topic:  I am uncomfortable with the way that
Jtdirl and others slander me as a racist. For example,
Jtdirl again stated that Zionists are racists. He does this
knowing that I a Zionist, therefore the clear implication
is that I am racist bigot whose words should be ignored.

Such angry and false speech about Zionists (which includes
tens of millions of Jews and Christians) is not appropriate
here. Would we accept it if people said that Irish
nationalism is racist? That feminism is FemiNazism? That
black progressivism is really white-hating communism? I
doubt that most Wikipedias would stand for this.  But when
people here make these generalized and incorrect statements
about Zionists, no one says a word.

You and I don't speak this way about people of other
groups; I propose that this standard should be true for all
of us here. I hope that I am not perceived as being
unreasonable.

Robert (RK)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com