Thanks Ori for sharing your perspective, you are alone.
Thanks Amir and Lucie for sharing your perspectives. They are very much
appreciated.
We are people interacting with other people. We must never forget that and
we should treat each other with respect, specially in the online spaces
with written communication, as there is so much context lost.
I think it is disingenuous to think this is about using offensive language
once. Keep it in mind when discussing the actions of the CoC committee,
because they are reasonable *people* doing their best to uphold our
communities and spaces to great standards in their volunteer time. Please
re-read
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct to put things in
context. Some excerpts that I consider relevant:
*In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming community, we are
committed to making participation in Wikimedia technical projects a
respectful and harassment-free experience for everyone, [...][...] Prolific
contributions and technical expertise are not a justification for lower
standards of behavior.Unacceptable behavior
<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct#Unacceptable_behavior>*
- *Personal attacks, [...], or deliberate intimidation.*
- *Offensive, derogatory, or discriminatory comments.*
- *[...]*
- *Inappropriate or unwanted public or private communication,
following, or any form of stalking.*
- *[...]*
- *Harming the discussion or community with methods such as sustained
disruption, interruption, or blocking of community collaboration (i.e.
trolling).*
- *[...]*
- *Attempting to circumvent a decision of the Committee or appeals
body, e.g. unblocking someone during a period the Committee banned them.*
I am personally very thankful that we have it and of the work that the
committee members have been doing for all of us.
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 3:57 AM MZMcBride <z(a)mzmcbride.com> wrote:
Gergo Tisza wrote:
- First of all, I'd like to thank the Code of
Conduct committee for doing
their job. It's a hard job where they need to make difficult judgement
calls, and are criticized harshly when they make a bad judgement and
ignored at best when they make a good one (although more likely they still
get criticized harshly). It's also a necessary job, so we should be glad
that someone is willing to do it (even if imperfectly, as human beings are
bound to). It's not unlike the role of Wikipedia administrators in that
regard.
Most of Wikimedia's and most of MediaWiki's existence has progressed
without a group of sticklers patrolling for language (or apparently tone)
that they happen to disagree with, at that time, in that context. Here's
you (Gergo) using the abbreviation "WTF" in May 2018:
<https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T192896#4170798>. It's completely
possible for someone to fake outrage at your Phabricator Maniphest
comment, just as it's completely possible, and perhaps probable, for
people to fake outrage at an expanded "What the fuck." comment.
Isarra wrote:
I would put forth that the CoC, or more
accurately, this heavy-handed
implementation of it, has been an abject failure that requires us all to
step back and try to look at all of this more objectively. To move
forward, we must address the issues with the CoC and its enforcement, but
to do so as a community, to come to any meaningful and informed
consensuses as such, will not be possible so long as nobody outside the
committee has any access to the stats, as no logging of actions taken is
available publicly, as the cases themselves remain largely invisible even
when they do not pertain to sensitive situations or materials.
Yes to all of this. The lack of transparency regarding how many
"incidents" this committee handles and what level of severity they are
means that any discussion about the necessity of having this committee is
incredibly difficult. Someone saying "What the fuck." on a Phabricator
task is not the same as someone threatening to kill another user. Any kind
of flat "this is how many complaints we received" statistic will be
incredibly misleading. (Consider a "number of crimes" statistic for any
city that conflates vandalism with rape.) Just how necessary is this group
that has only been around for about 15 months? Is its presence doing more
harm than good? Framing this group as a necessity is misguided without
substantiating the claim. Having watched similar arguments used to justify
expanded security theater at airports and public venues, I actually think
a sudden embrace of increased, questionable bureaucracy is pernicious.
Gergo Tisza wrote:
- Also, do consider that MZMcBride had the option
to reach out to the CoC
committee and ask their help in understanding exactly which of his
comments were problematic and in what way, and how they could be reframed
in a constructive way. He had the same option the previous time when the
committee merely warned him for a similar infraction. That he chose not
to is hardly the committee's fault.
Most of the reason I didn't see the e-mail about my account being disabled
is that someone decided to use the wiki software at
mediawiki.org to send
an e-mail instead of sending an e-mail directly. I don't understand this
practice or why it's appropriate or desirable.
MZMcBride
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