If they did, then I really don't think this controversy would be happening.
Casey Brown wrote:
On 10/11/07, *Jason Safoutin* <jason.safoutin(a)wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>> wrote:
The jury should have done that this time around and the time before.
They have expressly stated that they already have.
This is not rocket science and it is very well known how the Egyptian
government treats their people etc. If the jury cannot look past the
glitter and fame,
What glitter and fame?
then they need not be the decision makers.
I know most of the people on the jury to be very good decision-makers
and very hard-working.
We have
just as muchh right as anyone else to be there
No one has said that you don't have the same rights.
and we should not have to
feel unwanted or discriminated against because the decision is final.
But the decision *is* final, these discussions should have been
brought up at this depth *during* the bidding procedure, not after it
was announced. You could have e-mailed the jury, posted to this list,
or posted on the talk page.
It
is an outrage and it is *offensive* to people like me who are gay more
than speaking out against this.
We have no effect on the decision and its not our decision to make. It
seems that they did not make this decision on available information
They most definitely did, but it's everything must be taken into account.
because if they did they would have seen how brutal the regime is and
its easy to find...just google Egypt gay and human rights.
Ilya Haykinson wrote:
Jason,
The decision for 2008 has been made. If you feel uncomfortable
attending the conference in Egypt then feel free to stay away --
I am
sure that we'd rather have seen you there,
but nobody is forcing
anyone to go.
I am sure that your point about paying closer attention to the
country's laws and regulations related to discrimination has been
noted, and I'm sure that the Wikimania 2009 jury will pay even more
attention to this point next time they vote.
However, please do not offend the rest of the people on this
list who
have no problem with the city selection process
by making it
seem that
the process did not take your opinion into
account. The bidding
process was well publicized; the list of cities making their
bids has
been available for quite a while. There were
many opportunities
for
you and anyone else to get involved and argue for
or against
particular locations. In the future, if you feel so strongly, I
recommend finding the best point in the process to bring up your
opinions and arguments -- namely, before the decision has been
made.
Wikimedia's conferences are not meant to be places where only people
who share your particular values attend. There are plenty of people
in different parts of the world who would not want to attend
conferences in the U.S. due to some commonly held perceptions of its
treatment of Muslims or people who look like Arabs, and the
risks that
this carries to visitors. In fact, there are
cases where people
try
to hide their "Arab look" in order to
avoid harassment in the U.S.
There are advantages and disadvantages to every location. The jury
made its decision after careful considerations given the
information
they had at their disposal. Please find a way to
accept this
decision.
-ilya
On 10/11/07, Jason Safoutin <jason.safoutin(a)wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>> wrote:
> But they are so happy about gay tourism that they arrest nearly
70 men
> for being gay and having sex with other men?
That was in
August. So lets
> lie to a government that will put us in
prison just for
that...boy the
> charges are racking up, and I didn't even
go there yet.
>
> Jason
>
> James Hare wrote:
>
>> No, you don't necessarily have to hide who you are. In fact, I
hear
>> they're more tolerable of
homosexuality in tourists because
they need
>> the tourism money. My point is, it's
not a matter of
repressing who
>> you are as a person. It's about lying
to Egyptian officials where
>> applicable. :)
>>
>> On 10/11/07, *Jason Safoutin* <jason.safoutin(a)wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>
>> <mailto: jason.safoutin(a)wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>>> wrote:
>>
>> Huh? So we should hide who we are? We should cover up our
acts as
a
>> human being? Get real.
>>
>> James Hare wrote:
>> > You're saying it as though gayness is naturally radiated
out of
>> a gay
>> > man's orifices.
>> >
>> > On 10/11/07, *Jason Safoutin* <
jason.safoutin(a)wikinewsie.org <mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>
>>
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>>
>> > <mailto:
jason.safoutin(a)wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>
>>
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>>>> wrote:
>> >
>> > So I see...we (homosexuals etc) have to hide who we
are
and what
>> > we are
>> > proud of...so homosexuals don't get hurt or arrested.
>> > Wonderful...I will
>> > make sure to bring a mask or 2 to conceal anything
that
might
>> > suggest I
>> > am gay. Because thats what it feels like I ans any
other
>> > homosexual has
>> > to do to make this trip work. Thats wrong, unfair and it
>> > discrimination.
>> >
>> > I am also not happy with the fact that this is
sounding
more
>> and more
>> > like a political conference than anything and thats not
>> right. If you
>> > want to make Wikimania political, then don't get
involved.
>> And then to
>> > have Jimbo make a speech title that can get a lot
into a
lot of
>> > trouble....take the
political mess somewhere else.
This is a
>> media
>> > conference, not an election.
>> >
>> > Anyone can go and no one should have to be afraid of
their
>> own safety.
>> > Wikimania should be something for everyone, not the
elite.
>> Stop this
>> > discrimination.
>> >
>> > Jason Safoutin
>> >
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