----- Original Message ---- From: Tom Holden <thomas.holden(a)gmail.com> To: wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Tuesday, 22 July, 2008 12:11:38 AM Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Hello Re our chicken and egg situation: if I understand correctly all we need to do is to be able to show HMRC and the CC £5000 in cheques addressed to Wiki Educational Resources (correct me if I’m wrong). We don’t have to cash them until we actually are a charity (so we don't need to worry about getting a bank account now). Nor if I understand Paul’s e-mail correctly do we have to demonstrate that we can generate that level of income consistently in future years. There are two solutions to this I see that could get us those cheques within at most a month. 1) We discreetly and politely contact one of WMF’s rich donors. £5000 is by no stretch a large amount of money and for some it is certainly pocket money. OR 2) We offer life membership to people. Say £250. (a concessionary discount would probably be inappropriate as being unwaged is normally temporary, and a significantly larger level for both might be pushing it a bit as I doubt any of us are completely confident WM UK will be around in 20 years). I hereby commit publicly that I’d donate £250 for life membership if that was the agreed upon cost. If another 19 were prepared to do the same we'd be there. I'm a little worried this will create unnecessary and unwanted pressure on others to make similar gestures, but I thought it was probably necessary in this instance to put my (limited) money where my mouth is. To ameliorate this as much as possible I have created a pledgebank where other's can sign up without posting to this list and thus increasing pressure on others: http://www.pledgebank.com/wikimediauk-life Of course I may have grossly misunderstood Paul and this avenue may not be available, in which case, please correct me. Tom For that solution, we need to show first year income of £5000. That's all we'd have to do. We don't have to make any further commitments, or show them any other evidence that it will be repeated (although if it consistently isn't then there's a rule coming shortly that they can pull the plug if they want to). We don't have to prove anything about years 2 onwards at all. The only critierion is, we need to show them £5000 which needs to be: 1. Not a loan, or share capital of any kind, but actual keepable income. 2. At worst, a virtually bankable commitment to income - signed pledges, contracts, deeds, etc - not just "words". With no pressure, and just taking your example and numbers, if we did have 20 members who would write us cheques of £250 each, or would sign a deed to pay £125 once charitable status was granted and £125 six months afterwards, or a rich donor or two who'd give us £5000, or any combination of them, I could probably go to the Commission tomorrow and say that we've met their conditions. To answer the other email by Thomas, yes the FAQ at the Charity Commission states "An HMRC charity number should be accepted by other organisations such as banks and grant funders as evidence of charitable status". It turns out that means "... so they won't deduct tax on your interest" (if you are a club, trust, or the account is in the name of individuals and they would usually deduct tax on it). If your vehicle is an incorporated entity, then for banking purposes, without a charity number, you're counted as a business. -- Paul Sinclair businessfirst __________________________________________________________ Not happy with your email address?. Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html