No worries Lucy, I imagined that would be the case :) As I said, I *really* don't want to be causing problems and I hope my email reflects that.. Thank you for your attention to this, and please do reach out off-list Kind regards, *Sam* User:TheresNoTime <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:TheresNoTime> *English Wikipedia: CU/OS* On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 at 22:30, Lucy Crompton-Reid < lucy.crompton-reid(a)wikimedia.org.uk&gt; wrote:

Hi all, Following from what Doug and Charles have said: this was indeed part of the change to a dedicated tech system, from things running on my personal VPS and on the WMF servers. In case it's not clear: there are multiple wikis that WMUK hosts, not just the public one. This was important for WMUK to be clearly separated from WMF, and it was also in a background of WMUK trying to improve its technical capacity - although this didn't quite go as I'd have liked to have see (would be really nice if WMUK did a WMDE and hosted the technical development of a Wikimedia project!). It isn't too convenient, though - as well as the maintenance burden, you have to have separate logins, and you aren't connected with Wikidata (would have loved to connect Commons+WMUK wiki via Wikidata several times recently, but not possible!). It's definitely worth having a fresh thinking through of how this works with WMUK's current situation and technical capacity! Thanks, Mike On 2/11/21 02:05:16, Rex X wrote: > Hi Sam, > > I think it's worth you bearing in mind that WMUK is a separate legal > entity from WMF, and as a charity registered in the UK, is subject to > all of the UK regulations concerning data protection. > > The contents of the WMUK wikis have, since at least 2013, contained some > sensitive information that is not publicly accessible, such as the > minutes of /in camera/ sessions of Board meetings on the Board wiki, as > well as potentially business-sensitive content on the staff wiki. > > It was felt imperative in the past that the control of WMUK wikis must > rest in the hands of the Board or delegated staff members.That would > have to be the position in order to protect the organisation from any > possible breaches of data protection if control did not ultimately lie > with the Board. No setup that depended on the WMF servers could possibly > satisfy that requirement and that was one of the principal reasons for > WMUK using its own servers under its own control and with its own > developers. > > I appreciate your concern for WMUK, but I'm afraid that IMHO, it is > misplaced as far as breaches of data security are concerned. The > solution to using end-of-life versions of software is going to be to > update them to newer versions, not to move the entire system elsewhere > under the ultimate control of a foreign organisation. > > Cheers > > -- > > Doug > > >> On 01 November 2021 at 22:38 "Sam (TheresNoTime)" >> &lt;sam(a)theresnotime.co.uk&gt; wrote: >> >> No worries Lucy, I imagined that would be the case :) >> As I said, I /really/ don't want to be causing problems and I hope my >> email reflects that.. >> >> Thank you for your attention to this, and please do reach out off-list >> >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> *Sam* >> >> >> User:TheresNoTime <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:TheresNoTime>/ >> / >> >> /English Wikipedia: CU/OS/ >> >> >> >> On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 at 22:30, Lucy Crompton-Reid < >> lucy.crompton-reid(a)wikimedia.org.uk >> <mailto:lucy.crompton-reid@wikimedia.org.uk>> wrote: >> >> Just as a quick PS, I feel I should mention that the decisions you >> refer to took place several years before I joined the organisation >> (as per the phabricator thread) and so I will probably need to try >> to piece together why certain things happened with imperfect >> knowledge...but I will certainly do my best! >> >> On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 at 21:39, Sam (TheresNoTime) < >> sam(a)theresnotime.co.uk <mailto:sam@theresnotime.co.uk>> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Me again, bear with me... >> >> I emailed the list a while back about the IT Development >> pages, the issues with the Wiki etc. - I've seen today a >> number of edits (e.g. >> https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Special:Diff/82820 >> <https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Special:Diff/82820>) which >> attempt to potentially explain the changes, but fall a bit >> short, as I initially suggested here ( >> https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Special:Diff/82828 >> <https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Special:Diff/82828>). >> >> I've attempted to fix some of the bigger issues with the wiki >> ( >> https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Engine_room#Recent_changes_to_MediaWiki_names… >> <https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Engine_room#Recent_changes_to_MediaWiki_namespace_files>), >> but a lot boils down to the fact you're using a very old, >> insecure version of MediaWiki and PHP ( >> https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Engine_room#Installed_versions_of_MediaWiki_a… >> <https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Engine_room#Installed_versions_of_MediaWiki_and_PHP_are_end-of-life>). >> >> In regards to my comments about approaching the WMF to host >> the Wiki, I had this task pointed out to me ( >> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T58938 >> <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T58938>) which I found odd, >> especially some of the comments by your volunteers . >> >> I do not understand why Wikimedia UK migrated from a free, >> secure, managed MediaWiki installation to a VPS which I assume >> is either donated or is costing the charity money, and which >> isn't kept up to date? >> >> This doesn't strike me as an effective use of charity funds >> and volunteer time, and has unfortunately resulted in a >> MediaWiki install which is outdated and insecure (see >> CVE-2019-12468 >> <https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2019-12468> as just one >> example of an exploit against the currently installed version). >> >> As the UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation, running this >> MediaWiki installation is likely to "negatively impact the >> work or image of the Foundation" if exploited. Could someone >> please help me in understanding the decisions which led to >> moving away from the WMF infrastructure? Was there a conflict >> of mission? >> >> I appreciate I am "causing waves" here, and I _honestly don't >> want to be_ - Wikimedia UK has been a charity I've supported >> for quite some time, you do great work and I thank you for >> your commitment to open access to knowledge! >> How can we work together to resolve this? I'm fairly available >> this week and would be more than happy to chat with someone >> about how we can fix this. >> >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> *Sam* >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia UK mailing list >> wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l >> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l> >> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk <https://wikimedia.org.uk> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Lucy Crompton-Reid >> >> Chief Executive >> >> >> >> >> <https://donate.wikimedia.org.uk/> >> >> Wikimedia UK <https://beta.wikimedia.org.uk/>is the national >> chapter for the global Wikimedia open knowledge movement. >> >> Wikimedia UK is a Registered Charity No.1144513.Company Limited by >> Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. >> >> Registered Office Ground Floor, Europoint, 5 - 11 Lavington >> Street, London SE1 0NZ >> <https://maps.google.com/?q=5+-+11+Lavington+Street,+London+SE1+0NZ&entry=gmail&source=g>. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia UK mailing list >> wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l >> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l> >> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk <https://wikimedia.org.uk> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia UK mailing list >> wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l >> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia UK mailing list > wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l > WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk >

On 2/11/21 12:51:24, Andy Mabbett wrote: I was thinking more on the lines of something like Wikisource. ;-) But this is a good question! Thanks, Mike

Yes, we are talking about events in 2013. Which I lived through, in a sense, though the chapter's website was not my concern at the time. There is a Board minutes category on the site. A place to start is https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Minutes_2012-07-26 in which the chapter hiring a developer is discussed. Such things that are documented will be in the "Approved Board minutes" category there; and possibly in the tech committee records, though those would not have been made public until 2013 for security reasons. The overall context was migration of WMUK's work from a server run by Mike Peel to other hosting. Now, what I remember about the decision in question, on the chapter website's hosting, was an issue about the needs of fundraising. Possibly that interacted with the needs of charity status, where the WMUK/WMF relationship was a touchy subject. You'd need to someone closer to the Board at that time to comment further. Charles