The winners won't necessarily be from the UK, so something like Waterstones and WHSmith might not appeal to everyone. Fabian, do you have any suggestions? On 21 November 2013 09:12, Jon Davies <jon.davies(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote: -- Richard Nevell Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 20 7065 0753 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*

On 21 November 2013 10:23, Jonathan Cardy <jonathan.cardy(a)wikimedia.org.uk>wrote;wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:The_Core_Contest I think this discussion is rather making a meal of it. Charles

Good point Jonathan, that is the same approach we use internationally. Also, even if you do amazon, there are internationally multiple branches. Lodewijk 2013/11/21 Jonathan Cardy <jonathan.cardy(a)wikimedia.org.uk>

On 27 November 2013 14:18, Richard Symonds <richard.symonds(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote: I have always been against giving Amazon vouchers. If you have to use vouchers, then employee-owned organizations like John-Lewis are always going to be a more ethical purchase. The TV programme was entertainment, not an analysis. Amazon did not get an opportunity to respond. In particular having been a quality manager for factory floor production, using basic statistical process control for optimizing batch pick time is not in the least bit unreasonable. Bizarrely worker break times were not mentioned (nobody works a 10 hour shift without multiple reasonable breaks), neither was the very fair process for allocating and rewarding night-work shifts. I don't know why anyone would pick stock in areas where the light were out, this was plainly a stupid thing to do, and the floor manager at the time should have asked staff to not do that and defer those jobs until the electrician had fixed those problems. It may be worth asking Amazon for a direct statement about how they respond to the criticism (from a single contract employee and from haphazardly self-selected ex-employees, that the programme was almost entirely based on). Fae -- faewik(a)gmail.com http://j.mp/faewm

Surely the easiest solution is to offer "gift vouchers of the winner's choice to the value of £X" and ask all the finalists what their preference is? The moral dilemma is then conveniently shuffled off onto the recipient. Anecdotally, I took me almost a year to redeem my last Amazon gift voucher - my sense of duty to the givers finally overcame my distaste for Amazon's tax avoidance; on the other hand, my John Lewis voucher was used almost immediately. You may draw the conclusion that either (i) I own a lot of cushions, or (ii) the plural of anecdote is not data. Cheers -- Rexx On 29 November 2013 20:03, Andrew Gray <shimgray(a)gmail.com> wrote:

How about book vouchers? They can be spent at independent book stores if people choose to support them. Most people have some kind of independent book store near them. And knowing the wikiholics who might win 'em, the money will eventually come back to improve Wikipedia as a fair number of people will use them to buy reliable sources and then edit articles on the topic. If someone is likely not going to be able to spend them, we include a very small proviso saying something like "if the prize is not likely to be redeemable, Wikimedia UK may at the discretion of a member of staff or the board of trustees (delete/edit as politically appropriate this week) provide a similar prize of equivalent or near-equivalent value". A hack day I went to a few years ago had a really amazing prize: two tickets to the British Museum's then current special exhibition. This is one of my favourite hack day prizes. It wasn't a big and expensive prize like some other hack days offer (iPads, foreign travel, significant amounts of cash etc.) but it stands out precisely because it prompted me to go to an exhibition that I wouldn't otherwise go to and learn about something I wouldn't otherwise take much of an interest in. -- Tom Morris <http://tommorris.org/>

On 30/11/2013 10:56, Deryck Chan wrote: There's also multi-business gift voucher such as bonusbond if enough people really care that much. KTC -- Katie Chan Any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the view of any organisation the author is associated with or employed by. Experience is a good school but the fees are high. - Heinrich Heine --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

This is probably a good moment to remind employees and contractors of Wikimedia UK that comments about individuals or organizations that appear defamatory, may be taken as a position of the charity, especially if the charity does not take any steps to disassociate itself from published statements. Writing from personal email addresses does not automatically waive these issues, particularly considering the footers that are added to correspondence to this public list and that the use of apparently private email address are intermixed with emails from the charity's domain. I suggest that Jon Davies as the Wikimedia UK CEO, takes a moment to review whether guidelines for employees and contractors with regard to publishing potentially defamatory statements are sufficient to protect the charity. He remains free to ignore my advice of course, and having raised this as a risk when a trustee, I have no doubt this is not seen as urgent. Thanks, Fae -- faewik(a)gmail.com http://j.mp/faewm

He's being an arse because he doesn't like me because I don't roll over to his bullying and harrassment. Yawn, small minds and stuff :) Please accept my apologies for the distraction he has caused on this thread. I think the key point is that different people hold different likes and dislikes. So offering a monetary value they can take with their preferred provider is a great idea. Tom On 30 Nov 2013 16:14, "Michael Maggs" &lt;michael(a)maggs.name&gt; wrote:

Irrespective of whether or not Tom's comments reflect badly on the charity, this public bickering definitely does. It's also outside the scope of the thread. I'd suggest taking this off-list, please. Dan On 30 November 2013 17:21, Fæ &lt;faewik(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

If we give people a choice then they might well choose Amazon vouchers, but we can move immediately from promoting prizes as Amazon vouchers to promoting them as gift vouchers. From my Direct Marketing days when I was involved in running quite a few prize draws the major reason why people would use a known brand for a prize was to make the existence of the prize more credible. I would hope that we can assume that any prize draw which we run is credible. Jonathan Cardy GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives & Museums) Organiser/Trefnydd GLAM (Galeriau, Llyfrgelloedd, Archifdai a llawer Mwy!) Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0990 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents. Press Enter to send your message. On 27 November 2013 14:18, Richard Symonds &lt;richard.symonds(a)wikimedia.org.uk > To be fair, I will be moving away from Amazon for day-to-day purchases > after watching Panorama last night... it's not really feasible to move away > from Amazon vouchers, but I will definitely look into how we might be able > to. > > Richard Symonds > Wikimedia UK > 0207 065 0992 > > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and > Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered > Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. > United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia > movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who > operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). > > *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control > over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* > > > On 21 November 2013 18:13, Lodewijk &lt;lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org> >> Good point Jonathan, that is the same approach we use internationally. >> Also, even if you do amazon, there are internationally multiple branches. >> >> Lodewijk >> >> >> 2013/11/21 Jonathan Cardy &lt;jonathan.cardy(a)wikimedia.org.uk&gt; >> >>> If the prize is a book token or equivalent to a certain value then you >>> can sort out the practicalities such as Amazon v Waterstones with the >>> winner. Naming the company at this stage is giving them publicity that we >>> don't need to give. >>> >>> Jonathan Cardy >>> GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives & Museums) Organiser/Trefnydd GLAM (Galeriau, >>> Llyfrgelloedd, Archifdai a llawer Mwy!) >>> Wikimedia UK >>> 0207 065 0990 >>> >>> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and >>> Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered >>> Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. >>> United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia >>> movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who >>> operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). >>> >>> Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control >>> over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents. >>> >>> >>> Press Enter to send your message. >>> >>> >>> On 21 November 2013 09:36, Richard Nevell < >>> richard.nevell(a)wikimedia.org.uk>>> >>>> The winners won't necessarily be from the UK, so something like >>>> Waterstones and WHSmith might not appeal to everyone. >>>> >>>> Fabian, do you have any suggestions? >>>> >>>> >>>> On 21 November 2013 09:12, Jon Davies &lt;jon.davies(a)wikimedia.org.uk&gt;wrote;wrote: >>>> >>>>> Co-op bank? :( >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 21 November 2013 09:07, Simon Knight &lt;sjgknight(a)gmail.com>>>>> >>>>>> Yes that thought had crossed my mind too, I had a quick look for >>>>>> alternatives, the difficulty is finding somewhere with the same broad >>>>>> (product) appeal. Waterstones, WHSmith? >>>>>> Simon >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: wikimediauk-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: >>>>>> wikimediauk-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>> fabian(a)unpopular.org.uk >>>>>> Sent: 21 November 2013 09:05 >>>>>> To: wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> Subject: [Wikimediauk-l] Amazon Tax avoidance >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> > Can I go ahead and announce that WMUK will provide a Kobo and two >>>>>> > Amazon vouchers? (About £70 worth of prizes in total.) >>>>>> >>>>>> Has the Amazon Tax avoidance been sorted Out? >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20560359 >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not sure that WMUK would want to be seen endorsing Amazon if >>>>>> this is not the case? >>>>>> >>>>>> all the best >>>>>> >>>>>> Fabian >>>>>> User:Leutha >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikimedia UK mailing list >>>>>> wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org >>>>>> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l >>>>>> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikimedia UK mailing list >>>>>> wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org >>>>>> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l >>>>>> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> *Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 >>>>> 169 >>>>> tweet @jonatreesdavies >>>>> >>>>> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England >>>>> and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. >>>>> Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, >>>>> London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global >>>>> Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia >>>>> Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). >>>>> Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990. >>>>> >>>>> Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia UK mailing list >>>>> wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org >>>>> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l >>>>> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Richard Nevell >>>> Wikimedia UK >>>> +44 (0) 20 7065 0753 >>>> >>>> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England >>>> and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. >>>> Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, >>>> London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global >>>> Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia >>>> Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). >>>> >>>> *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal >>>> control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia UK mailing list >>>> wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org >>>> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l >>>> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia UK mailing list >>> wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org >>> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l >>> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia UK mailing list >> wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org >> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l >> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia UK mailing list > wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l > WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org > >

FTR our main bank is Unity Trust which is not quite the co-op. On 21 November 2013 09:36, Charles Matthews &lt;charles.r.matthews(a)ntlworld.com > On 21 November 2013 09:12, Jon Davies &lt;jon.davies(a)wikimedia.org.uk> >> Co-op bank? :( >> > > Indeed. The adoption of the superficially "ethical" bank by the chapter > illustrates the hazards of the reasoning above. > > Charles > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia UK mailing list > wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l > WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org > > -- *Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990. Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk

About £200,000 per year. It's a pity Amazon isn't as publicly spirited as WMUK. -- Rexx On 27 November 2013 21:38, James Farrar &lt;james.farrar(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

Ask Sue Gardner. On 28/11/2013, James Farrar &lt;james.farrar(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

Rexx is referring to gift aid on the global WMF fundraiser, which isn't collected at all because the fundraising is done by the WMF these days, rather than ourselves. WMF cannot collect gift aid. On Nov 28, 2013 9:01 PM, "James Farrar" &lt;james.farrar(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

On 29 November 2013 13:08, Andrew Gray &lt;andrew.gray(a)dunelm.org.uk&gt; wrote: We can express it in a much clearer way: "For every £1 you donate, less than half is spent on the stated outcomes of the charity". So, if claiming the tax back might push the charity into becoming *more* than 50% "efficient", it seems worth the effort. Fae -- faewik(a)gmail.com http://j.mp/faewm

On 29 November 2013 13:22, Stevie Benton &lt;stevie.benton(a)wikimedia.org.uk&gt; wrote: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:FDC_portal/Proposals/2013-2014_round1/…

On 29 November 2013 13:08, Andrew Gray &lt;andrew.gray(a)dunelm.org.uk&gt; wrote: If "we" is WMUK, then no, we're not. But we as individuals are paying money to the taxman, which could be redirected to in WMUK/WMF coffers, but is not. What steps are the board talking, to ensure that this situation ends ASAP? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk