#ListEngland: Heritage England, crowd-sourcing, a missed opportunity

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Andy Mabbett

7 Jun 2016 7 Jun '16

1:29 p.m.

As you may have seen in the media, or on social media, today, Heritage England, who maintain the country's list of, er, listed buildings, have launched a crowd-souring initiative, asking people to provide information and images about listed buildings. It's a horribly missed opportunity - it seems no thought has been given to collaborating with the Wikimedia movement, who have been colleclting such pictures on Commons (not least as "Wiki Loves Monuments") and writing about the buildings for over a decade, on Wikipedia. Nor are people submitting images asked to put them under open licence. They claim their terms, at: http://historicengland.org.uk/terms/website-terms-conditions/enriching-the-… allow the images to be used on Wikipedia, but that's not so. I'm in contact with them, and am hoping to have a phone chat with the project manager later today. I'll keep you informed. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Lucy Crompton-Reid

7 Jun 7 Jun

2:18 p.m.

New subject: #ListEngland: Heritage England, crowd-sourcing, a missed opportunity

Thanks for this Andy - what a shame! I hope you manage to speak to them and see if there is any scope for coordination. Cheers, Lucy On 7 Jun 2016 14:30, "Andy Mabbett" <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:

...

Charles Matthews

8 Jun 8 Jun

10:03 a.m.

New subject: #ListEngland: Heritage England, crowd-sourcing, a missed opportunity

Perhaps some thought should be given to how to structure metadata on buildings (and suchlike) on Commons. Some of us are aware that the advent of Wikidata has led to a reconsideration of Commons from the "structured data" point of view; which is somewhat stalled right now, though the Creator pages have moved ahead. In other words architects yes, buildings no at present. In any case, while there is a great deal on Commons, there is also much to be done there. Charles

Andy Mabbett

11:42 a.m.

New subject: #ListEngland: Heritage England, crowd-sourcing, a missed opportunity

On 8 June 2016 at 11:03, Charles Matthews <charles.r.matthews(a)ntlworld.com> wrote:

...

Perhaps some thought should be given to how to structure metadata on buildings (and suchlike) on Commons.

Indeed. For those unfamiliar with them, there are some pages on this, at: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wikidata https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Commons though all seem out-of-date. In the interim the Commons' template {{Wikidata}} can be used to associate a Wikidata ID with an image, page or category about a building, or any other item. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

Fæ

3:11 p.m.

New subject: #ListEngland: Heritage England, crowd-sourcing, a missed opportunity

It would make sense to build on the work already done in standardizing NRHP related photographs. The 300,000 archive images of historic American buildings I uploaded were mapped to Commons categories and NRHP numbers. It's a while back, but you can see an example of semi-automated mapping at <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Batch_uploading/Library_of_Congress/HABS> (I'd generate this using different methods now, at the time this was independent of Wikidata). NRHP exists on Wikidata, for example <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q424679>. So this is all at the stage where it can be pulled together with a bit of bot work and a bit of consensus building on how to adapt existing templates, perhaps just a couple of months with the right volunteer team. Media on Commons for the UK's listed buildings could then easily follow the identical workflow, but considering this has taken at least four years of discussion to date, it's not strategically wise to try to attempt to set a potentially conflicting precedent with the UK data when the US data is at the final stage. Fae On 8 June 2016 at 11:03, Charles Matthews <charles.r.matthews(a)ntlworld.com> wrote:

...

-- faewik(a)gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

Andy Mabbett

11:10 a.m.

On 7 June 2016 at 14:29, Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:

...

I'm in contact with them, and am hoping to have a phone chat with the project manager later today.

Despite saying he'd call me, he didn't. Nor have I received any explanation or apology for this. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

Charles Matthews

12:51 p.m.

New subject: #ListEngland: Heritage England, crowd-sourcing, a missed opportunity

...

On 08 June 2016 at 12:10 Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote: On 7 June 2016 at 14:29, Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:

I'm in contact with them, and am hoping to have a phone chat with the project manager later today.

Despite saying he'd call me, he didn't. Nor have I received any explanation or apology for this.

Yes, people are quite bad about that. Though I rarely use a public mailing list to point it out. Charles

Rex X

9 Jun 9 Jun

11:54 p.m.

New subject: #ListEngland: Heritage England, crowd-sourcing, a missed opportunity

Perhaps if more people did use a public mailing list to point it out, the offenders might be less likely to repeat the behaviour. Just guessing, of course. -- Rexx

...

On 08 June 2016 at 13:51 Charles Matthews <charles.r.matthews(a)ntlworld.com> wrote:

On 08 June 2016 at 12:10 Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote: On 7 June 2016 at 14:29, Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:

I'm in contact with them, and am hoping to have a phone chat with the project manager later today.

Despite saying he'd call me, he didn't. Nor have I received any explanation or apology for this.

Yes, people are quite bad about that. Though I rarely use a public mailing list to point it out. Charles_______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

Pat Hadley

15 Jun 15 Jun

12:22 p.m.

New subject: #ListEngland: Heritage England, crowd-sourcing, a missed opportunity

Hi folks, This has been particularly disappointing - particularly since I've been at the meetings in the archaeology/heritage sector waving the Wikipedia/OpenData flag! Oh well.... Good on you Andy! Who's your contact? You might want to try and track down Keith May (author of this: https://historicengland.org.uk/research/support-and-collaboration/heritage-…) and general data nerd and good egg... Cheers, Pat On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 12:54 AM, Rex X <rexx(a)blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

...

Perhaps if more people did use a public mailing list to point it out, the offenders might be less likely to repeat the behaviour. Just guessing, of course. -- Rexx

On 08 June 2016 at 13:51 Charles Matthews <

charles.r.matthews(a)ntlworld.com>

wrote: > > On 08 June 2016 at 12:10 Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk>

wrote:

> > > On 7 June 2016 at 14:29, Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk>

wrote:

> > > I'm in contact with them, and am hoping to have a phone chat

with the

project manager later today.

Despite saying he'd call me, he didn't. Nor have I received any explanation or apology for this.

Yes, people are quite bad about that. Though I rarely use a public

mailing

list to point it out. Charles_______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

-- Pat Hadley Yorkshire's open culture brain-for-hire pathadley.net @pathadley <http://twitter.com/pathadley>

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participants (6)

Andy Mabbett
Charles Matthews
Fæ
Lucy Crompton-Reid
Pat Hadley
Rex X