> I would agree with that. Maybe there is a need for "Friends of
> Wikimedia UK" membership? In the same way that you are a "friend" of
> your favourite charity e.g. The British Museum.
There already is, that's what Gordon was talking about. You can be a
"member", which just means you pay some money each year and just
generally support the chapter, like a "friends of" thing, or you can
be a "guarantor member" which involves paying slightly more each year
and gets you a vote at the AGM and means you can stand as director. It
also means you are liable for up to £1 of the company's debts if it
gets wound up (goes bankrupt).
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 23:49, Gordon Joly <gordon.joly(a)pobox.com> wrote:
> There are two types of members; members of the
> company, who hold the legal liability, and the
> wider members of organization. Hence an AGM
> should invite the first class, but does not have
> to invite the second class, in UK law.
Thank you for this clarification, which I am actually aware of, but
it's good to make the distinction since I haven't made it in my email.
> However, it is very clear (as you suggest) that
> the Chapter should invite everybody who wants to
> take part to the forthcoming AGM.
Yes, my request is that the "members of the company" make sure that
their next AGM actually invites everyone who is interested in the
future of Wikimedia UK, and also make sure that these people get a say
in how this goes further, whether "legally" (by maybe accepting on the
spot membership fees if that is possible), or through "common sense"
(by taking into account the participant's suggestions).
Best,
Delphine
Hello all,
I have been following with interest in the past two years, but
especially in the past few weeks, the different threads on the
development of Wiki Educational Resources / Wikimedia UK.
I must say that as we watch all other chapters develop, all at their
own pace, but definitely towards active and fruitful organisations,
the Wikimedia Foundation is growing a bit concerned about the lack of
development of Wikimedia UK.
Although no-one in the Foundation is versed in UK law, and although we
are sympathetic to all the problems that have been strewn on Wikimedia
UK's way, we believe that it is time to really make things happen and
push Wikimedia UK forward.
Lately, we have received a follow-up by Paul Sinclair telling us
another would be forthcoming, which gave us a pretty clear vision of
the situation and of the problems that WER faces (bank, charity status
etc.), this following the help Cary proposed from the Wikimedia
Foundation earlier on this list. We have answered Paul with questions
and considerations, about two weeks ago. Our questions and proposals
have not been answered or commented upon since.
In the light of our experience with other chapters, and although we
are aware of the minimal legal requirements for an AGM in the UK, we
strongly believe that the community of Wikimedia UK contributors has a
right, and even a duty, to make sure that they bring all the help they
can to Wikimedia UK.
As such, I strongly urge the existing board to hold the next AGM as
soon as possible (apparently it should happen before the 23rd of
September) and with as many interested people as possible (potential
members), in order to draw an accurate picture of the support that
WIkimedia UK can count on in its further developments. as well as to
make sure that all interested people have had a chance to voice their
opinion and propose their help.
At this stage, not having a functional Chapter in the UK is a fact
that deprives the Wikimedia projects from a very important potential
source of support, both financial and in various activities and
partnerships. It is not a situation that we can allow to go on for
another two years. We therefore need to have this AGM happen, and
happen quickly. As Cary pointed out, the Wikimedia Foundation is ready
to help Wikimedia UK get started, as long as the requests are
reasonable and make sense, of course :-). We believe an AGM with as
many people as possible will provide the necessary feedback for us to
give our support where it is needed.
Note that in the case that this "extended" AGM does not happen and/or
does not come up with real proposals for solutions, the Wikimedia
Foundation will have to reassess the status of WER in its current
state as official Wikimedia Chapter, notably to be consistent with the
chapters requirements and guidelines, which demand that chapters are
supported by a group of active members of the community and not just 4
or 5,
The Foundation staff and myself are of course at your disposal for
any question or concerns, both on this list and privately
(dmenardATwikimediaPUNTOorg).
Best,
Delphine
--
Delphine Ménard
Chapters coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation
Forwarding to mailing list, accidentally replied off list. Alison,
please don't send replies to me personally as well as the list, it
messes up the reply-to headers - thanks!
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton(a)gmail.com>
Date: 2008/8/13
Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Paul Sinclair
To: wikimedia(a)alisonwheeler.com
2008/8/13 Alison Wheeler <wikimedia(a)alisonwheeler.com>:
> I, amongst others, have been seeing these calls for additional information
> as very close to trolling / stalking. Taking your points in order however:
If you kept us up-to-date without me having to repeatedly ask, then I
wouldn't have to repeatedly ask, would I?
> On Tue, August 12, 2008 23:51, Thomas Dalton wrote:
>> Correction, there is no *legal* requirement. There is a moral
>> requirement that people know who it is representing them.
>
> "Moral" requirements don't cut much ice in this situation. Like it or not,
> WER Limited is obliged to operate under the Company Law of England & Wales
> as that is the law it is registered under. The Company as a whole
> represents Wikimedia in the UK. It doesn't, per se, represent individuals.
Most people think it a good idea to behave in a moral fashion,
whatever the situation...
>> As I understand it, Paul will have to stand down at the upcoming AGM,
>> since he was appointed not elected.
>
> That is correct. One-third of the Board is required to resign each year
> and may seek re-appointment.
I'm confused by your second sentence. That rule isn't relevant to
Paul. Paul has to stand down since he hasn't been elected. Then, a
third of the remaining directors (of which there are 3, so 1 of them)
has to stand down. There is also an empty seat on the board at the
moment, so that will also be up for election.
>> Assuming you actually allow interested
>> parties to take part in the AGM (if you don't, you can expect
>> trouble), I strongly doubt he'll be elected without telling the
>> electorate a little more about himself.
>
> As with every other registered company we will have an AGM to which all
> members of the Company will be invited, they being the "interested
> parties" required by law who are empowered to vote. As regards your
> bracketed aside I do not appreciate threats and would suggest you cease
> making them.
The interested parties are any contributor to Wikimedia projects with
a connection to the UK. You don't respond to polite requests, so I
have to resort to threats. If you use your incompetence in failing to
get things sorted so people can become members to get out of being
held accountable to the community based on a technicality, then I will
have no choice but to take what action I can. If it comes down to it,
we'll found a new chapter. It's been discussed in private and there is
support for such an action as a last resort. I expect the WMF to
support such an action if the community is behind it.
>> His on-wiki identity, at the very least.
>
> As I said above, this repeated calling for what is, in every sense,
> unnecessary information - from a legal standpoint - is becoming very close
> to stalking. Should *any* member of or candidate for the Board wish to
> disclose information about themselves in addition to that required by
> Company Law to be published is their choice and theirs alone. It will
> never be something demanded by the Company.
The company isn't demanding it, the community is. We don't care about
the legal standpoint, we just want to know who is running *our*
chapter. I'm aware the company probably isn't able to release the
information without Paul's consent, which I why my requests have been
directed at him (others have made more general requests). If you
actually cared about the community, you would be encouraging him to
comply with our request.
What's the latest on getting the Companies House records up-to-date?
Has Arkady had any success with that?
Also, what's the latest on organising an AGM? It needs to be held by
September 23rd at the latest, and requires 21 days notice, so it needs
to be announced by September 2nd at the latest. That's 3 weeks away,
if nothing has been done so far regarding organising it, it needs to
start now.
2008/8/11 Tom Holden <thomas.holden(a)gmail.com>
> Does anyone feel like volunteering to give a 5 min talk (with slides
> possibly) at the next Oxford Geek nights?
>
>
>
> A lot of people from Oxford tech businesses go, so it's a great opportunity
> for us to get the attention of sponsors.
>
>
>
> Details are here:
>
>
>
> http://oxford.geeknights.net/2008/aug-27th/
>
>
>
> E-mail me off list or talk to me on IRC if you're interested. If no one
> else volunteers I guess I'll grudgingly do it myself, but I'm not a massive
> fan of speaking in front of an audience and it'd be good if it was someone
> who's actually been to a Wikimania before...
>
>
>
> If several people are interested in coming down we could potentially make
> it an Oxford bid team meet up event.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK
> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>
>
Potentially interested - as much as I hate talking in front of a large
audience. A meetup would be a good idea, for before we all become busier
with work/university after the holidays.
--
Al Tally
(User:Majorly)
Does anyone feel like volunteering to give a 5 min talk (with slides
possibly) at the next Oxford Geek nights?
A lot of people from Oxford tech businesses go, so it's a great opportunity
for us to get the attention of sponsors.
Details are here:
http://oxford.geeknights.net/2008/aug-27th/
E-mail me off list or talk to me on IRC if you're interested. If no one else
volunteers I guess I'll grudgingly do it myself, but I'm not a massive fan
of speaking in front of an audience and it'd be good if it was someone who's
actually been to a Wikimania before...
If several people are interested in coming down we could potentially make it
an Oxford bid team meet up event.
Tom
2008/8/11 Tom Holden <thomas.holden(a)gmail.com>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Just got back from my meeting with someone from Science Oxford/ITsON. I'm
> not sure my presentation was exactly brilliant as I was kind of sleep
> deprived, but he was very helpful nonetheless. He's given me a whole load of
> suggestions of organisations to contact and is going to give me some useful
> contacts at some of them. He's also going to arrange for us to (hopefully)
> have an article in their magazine/newsletter and in the business section of
> the local paper. So lots to be working on. (Help, as ever, is appreciated.)
> I'll put more details on the wiki later.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
This is good to hear. Not a lot of stuff seems to be going on at the moment
- thanks for your hard work on this.
--
Al Tally
(User:Majorly)
Hi all,
Just got back from my meeting with someone from Science Oxford/ITsON. I'm
not sure my presentation was exactly brilliant as I was kind of sleep
deprived, but he was very helpful nonetheless. He's given me a whole load of
suggestions of organisations to contact and is going to give me some useful
contacts at some of them. He's also going to arrange for us to (hopefully)
have an article in their magazine/newsletter and in the business section of
the local paper. So lots to be working on. (Help, as ever, is appreciated.)
I'll put more details on the wiki later.
Tom
2008/8/7 Tom Holden <thomas.holden(a)gmail.com>:
> As long as there's no e.g. file-sharing we won't run afoul of the JANET or
> OUCS rules. The only potential stumbling block is college network
> administrators and their internal firewalls, but there's amount of
> discrepancy between colleges and as you say, there's always the option of
> tunnelling out over e.g. ssh. (I wouldn't be on IRC without it.)
Universities have lots of experience with conference accommodation,
I'm sure they have systems in place for giving conference goers
internet access, it can't be an unusual request.