2008/7/7 Tom Holden <thomas.holden(a)gmail.com>:
> I've moved your page to
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2010/Bids/UK/London to allow for
> other UK bids till we decide where we want to be. I've also incorporated
> Gary Kirk's party venue suggestions from
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2009/UK/London. I seem to
> remember a much more complete London bid existing somewhere but perhaps I'm
> just thinking of the 08 bid (Gary?). It would be worth copying across still
> relevant info from
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2008/Bids/London and
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2007/London since these pages
> have a lot more detail than the 2009 page seems to have.
>
>
>
> I've also moved across the Oxford bid from last year to
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2010/Bids/UK/Oxford and updated
> it slightly. Quite why we didn't go official with one of the two bids last
> year I'll never know. There is a little bit of a danger that people will
> think I'm a joke after the somewhat embarrassing "we missed the submission
> deadline" emails I had to send to various officials last year but, well,
> fingers crossed for short memories. I know Gary was also rather disenchanted
> with the process after last year's farce, so anything we could do to avoid
> that would be great (and Gary, if you have the strength, your help would be
> much appreciated).
>
>
>
> If we're going to make this work though we really need the full support of
> Wikimedia UK. We have a lot greater chance of getting sponsorship if emails
> come from the "Director, Wikimedia UK", particularly if that's followed by
> "Registered charity number ...". It will also significantly increase our
> chances of winning if we're backed by a mature chapter. We rather seem to be
> stagnating at the moment, though I accept there's a lot to be done and there
> may be a lot being done behind the scenes. If it's any use I'm happy to take
> over any of the executive positions, e.g. treasurer for which I'm reasonably
> qualified I guess.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
> (User:Cfp)
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* wikimediauk-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
> wikimediauk-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Al Tally
> *Sent:* 07 July 2008 01:25
> *To:* wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> *Subject:* [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimania London 2010
>
>
>
> Anyone interested in helping work on a Wikimania bid for London in 2010?
> See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2010/Bids/London
>
> Apparently the odds are on Europe or North America winning, so we have a
> chance. Let's get Wikimania to the UK!
>
> --
> Al Tally
> (User:Majorly)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK
> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>
>
We also need to decide fast and early where we are going to bid to host, as
trying to maintain 2 or 3 bids is highly detrimental to the quality of them.
We want one, hard working team working on a single bid.
My personal vote is in for London.
--
~ Paul Williams
~ [[n:User:Skenmy]]
Notice regarding Wikimania 2010... for those who are interested in making a
bid. Cheers
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Cary Bass <cbass(a)wikimedia.org>
Date: 2008/7/11
Subject: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2010 bidding process
To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)" <
wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Whether it's those of you who are preparing to go to Alexandria and
those of you who are going to get tired of hearing the stories from
those of you that did, you probably didn't expect to see that as a
subject line quite yet.
However, I'm writing this email now, to allow an ample amount of time in
advance of the bidding process to begin to set the dates. This is done
for several reasons; not the least of which to allow those interested in
bidding ample time for getting their bid ideas into place.
I believe that bringing up the dates for Wikimania 2009 was advantageous
for several reasons; the first being that it allows a specific 2009 team
to learn from the 2008 conference. The question now is whether bidding
for 2010 should take place in the fall, shortly after Wikimania 2008, to
take advantage of the momentum generated by the current conference,
while the event is still fresh in people's heads; or should we wait
until the beginning of 2009, like we did this year with Wikimania 2009.
I'm sure this will be somewhat of a discussion during this year's event.
~ I'd also like to involve as wide a representation of the community at
large in the process; this is why I'm sending this email out now, while
Wikimania is on people's minds.
- --
Cary Bass
Volunteer Coordinator
Your continued donations keep Wikipedia running! Support the Wikimedia
Foundation today: http://donate.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
Phone: 415.839.6885 x 601
Fax: 415.882.0495
E-Mail: cary(a)wikimedia.org
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_______________________________________________
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https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
--
Al Tally
(User:Majorly)
2008/7/7 Tom Holden <thomas.holden(a)gmail.com>:
> "That's not a bad point. It doesn't actually have to be London, it
> could be somewhere within the London commuter belt. Show me some
> numbers, and you might be able to convince me."
>
> The numbers for Oxford are already up here:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2010/Bids/UK/Oxford
>
> Pasted for convenience:
>
> 5.1 Coach connections to Oxford
>
> * Central London - Oxford Tube (100 mins) [4], Oxford Espress X90 (100
> mins) [5]
> * London Heathrow Airport - The Airline X70 (80-100 mins) [6]
> * London Gatwick Airport - The Airline X80 (120-150 mins) [7]
> * London Luton Airport - National Express JL737 (110-130 mins) [8]
> * London Stansted Airport - National Express JL737 (190 - 230 mins) [9]
>
> 5.2 Train connections to Oxford
>
> * Central London (60 mins) [10]
> * Birmingham International Airport (57 mins) [11]
>
>
>
> So about an hour and a half from Heathrow. That's pretty competitive with
> getting the tube into the centre which is around 45 mins on a good day if I
> remember right. It's also certainly competitive with Cambridge US. (Many
> people would have had to fly into NY, got an internal flight to Boston and
> then a train/bus to Cambridge I'm guessing.)
>
> Tom
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK
> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>
Well I'll be willing to assist with anywhere to be honest. I'd just really
like it to be in the UK.
--
Al Tally
(User:Majorly)
> · Wikimania has been in cities other than the capital or largest one
> more often than not (Frankfurt not Berlin, Cambridge not DC or NY,
> Alexandria not Cairo).
I believe Frankfurt has better transport links than Berlin. I don't
know much about the other two. The reason for London isn't that it's
the capital or the biggest city, but that is has the best transport
links.
> · We have tried London before. Many times. Even with very active bid
> leaders (Alison, Gary) we had no luck.
True, but I'm not sure anywhere else in the UK will fare better in
that respect. Most other suggestions have only one person particularly
interested in them.
> · London is spread out over a massive area. This either means
> significant journeys from accommodation to conferences to restaurants, or
> doing basically everything in one of the university's campuses, making us
> very dependent on that university for everything and giving a rather
> claustrophobic feel.
London is very big, sure, but each small section has everything we
need. It's built up of lots of smaller self-contained (and formally
separate) areas. We can easily find a venue that is near to
accommodation and other facilities.
> · London is expensive and is globally perceived as being even more
> expensive than it actually is. Being firmly rooted in a university campus
> would ameliorate this, but it's always going to be an issue when it comes to
> evaluating bids.
That's true enough, but if is so much more expensive that it would
make up for additional transport costs?
> · The transport advantages are illusionary. Getting into the centre
> of London from Heathrow does not take significantly more time than getting
> into the centre of Oxford (there are shuttle busses). (Oxford is of course
> not unique in this: Reading, Guildford, Cambridge etc. all have similar
> services I'd imagine).
That's not a bad point. It doesn't actually have to be London, it
could be somewhere within the London commuter belt. Show me some
numbers, and you might be able to convince me.
> The strongest arguments for Oxford in particular are:
I'd say the strongest argument for Oxford is the prestige of Oxford
University - if the event is strongly associated with the Uni, that
would be an excellent selling point.
2008/7/7 Tom Holden <thomas.holden(a)gmail.com>:
> OK well I'm not going to fight too much for Oxford if I'm the only one who
> thinks London isn't that great an idea, but before I shut up I'll just make
> a few points:
>
>
>
> · Wikimania has been in cities other than the capital or largest one
> more often than not (Frankfurt not Berlin, Cambridge not DC or NY,
> Alexandria not Cairo).
>
> · We have tried London before. Many times. Even with very active bid
> leaders (Alison, Gary) we had no luck.
>
> · London is spread out over a massive area. This either means
> significant journeys from accommodation to conferences to restaurants, or
> doing basically everything in one of the university's campuses, making us
> very dependent on that university for everything and giving a rather
> claustrophobic feel.
>
> · London is expensive and is globally perceived as being even more
> expensive than it actually is. Being firmly rooted in a university campus
> would ameliorate this, but it's always going to be an issue when it comes to
> evaluating bids.
>
> · The transport advantages are illusionary. Getting into the centre
> of London from Heathrow does not take significantly more time than getting
> into the centre of Oxford (there are shuttle busses). (Oxford is of course
> not unique in this: Reading, Guildford, Cambridge etc. all have similar
> services I'd imagine).
>
>
>
> The strongest arguments for Oxford in particular are:
>
>
>
> · The presence of the Oxford Internet Institute. A ready source of
> speakers and a unique selling point (would be particularly useful in
> ensuring serious press coverage).
>
> · Oxford's popularity as a tourist destination.
>
> · Its compact city-centre.
>
> · Fairly high tech population. 3 games companies off the top of my
> head, major web design companies. Regular "geek nights" meetings.
>
>
>
> Do we have any contacts in UCL/LSE/Imperial anymore? If not then my contacts
> in Oxford university would be another advantage.
I tend to agree that going for London straight away, without due
consideration, is not necessarily the most sensible option.
Tom makes excellent points in favour of Oxford (that don't apply to a
city such as Manchester). The transport question is not crucial if
the city chosen is near to London, as none of the airports are in the
city centre.
The obvious alternatives, therefore, would be Oxford, Reading and
Cambridge. Oxford and Cambridge have the attraction of the historic
universities in a way London does not (the Library of Alexandria
factor).
Cambridge obviously is the centre of a technology region and has two
universities' facilities. It has excellent transport links (to London
and to the airports). A huge proportion of Cambridge's residents work
in central London (the train is less than 45 minutes to King's Cross).
I say this not necessarily in support of Cambridge, Oxford or anywhere
else, or even in opposition to London, but in support of asking the
questions before making this decision.
--
Sam
PGP public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sam_Korn/public_key
2008/7/7 Tom Holden <thomas.holden(a)gmail.com>:
> OK well I'm not going to fight too much for Oxford if I'm the only one
> who thinks London isn't that great an idea, but before I shut up I'll just
> make a few points:
>
>
>
> · Wikimania has been in cities other than the capital or largest
> one more often than not (Frankfurt not Berlin, Cambridge not DC or NY,
> Alexandria not Cairo).
>
> · We have tried London before. Many times. Even with very active
> bid leaders (Alison, Gary) we had no luck.
>
> · London is spread out over a massive area. This either means
> significant journeys from accommodation to conferences to restaurants, or
> doing basically everything in one of the university's campuses, making us
> very dependent on that university for everything and giving a rather
> claustrophobic feel.
>
> · London is expensive and is globally perceived as being even more
> expensive than it actually is. Being firmly rooted in a university campus
> would ameliorate this, but it's always going to be an issue when it comes to
> evaluating bids.
>
> · The transport advantages are illusionary. Getting into the
> centre of London from Heathrow does not take significantly more time than
> getting into the centre of Oxford (there are shuttle busses). (Oxford is of
> course not unique in this: Reading, Guildford, Cambridge etc. all have
> similar services I'd imagine).
>
>
>
> The strongest arguments for Oxford in particular are:
>
>
>
> · The presence of the Oxford Internet Institute. A ready source of
> speakers and a unique selling point (would be particularly useful in
> ensuring serious press coverage).
>
> · Oxford's popularity as a tourist destination.
>
> · Its compact city-centre.
>
> · Fairly high tech population. 3 games companies off the top of my
> head, major web design companies. Regular "geek nights" meetings.
>
>
>
> Do we have any contacts in UCL/LSE/Imperial anymore? If not then my
> contacts in Oxford university would be another advantage.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
Tom - it's not in London for the sake of it because it's the capital - I'd
much rather it was in Manchester. Heck, I'm going to a university in
Manchester that could easily hold it. But the fact is, London is better in
the point of view of foreigners. As Thomas said above, most flights go
through London. When I was looking at flights to Manchester from various
places, the majority go through London. It's just extra expense that isn't
needed.
We've only tried London once, for the 2007 bid when Alison was the contact.
Other times we dropped out, and didn't make it to the stage where the jury
voted. I think it's worth another try.
London is big, granted, but that's irrelevant. I don't live in London, nor
have I strong connections there, but thinking practically, it is the best
location.
--
Al Tally
(User:Majorly)
I hadn't logged in to Wikipedia since January until this afternoon. I didn't
even know unified login had happened! I'm unsubscribed from all the mailing
lists but this one...
I think the 2006 bid, which I was uninvolved in, was fairly complete. I've
got a few pages of notes and phone numbers and the like to do with the 2008
bid, but quite a few things are different - London has a new mayor, we have
a new culture secretary and so on
As for the party suggestions, I have emails from the Louise T. Blouin's PA
about that venue. I can put you in touch with her if you want, or I can
speak to Jimmy about it.
If you want me to help, you have to be at least partially committed. You
have to want it to happen, because I am not going to be asking and asking
again. You have to have some intelligence that allows you to actively think
what to do for yourself, and have ideas, and not wait for me or anyone else
to tell you what to do.
That was a rant and you may think it harsh but last time I put a lot of my
time and resources into a bid and I was practically the only one. I will not
have my time wasted again.
Gary
2008/7/7 Tom Holden <thomas.holden(a)gmail.com>:
> I've moved your page to
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2010/Bids/UK/London to allow for
> other UK bids till we decide where we want to be. I've also incorporated
> Gary Kirk's party venue suggestions from
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2009/UK/London. I seem to
> remember a much more complete London bid existing somewhere but perhaps I'm
> just thinking of the 08 bid (Gary?). It would be worth copying across still
> relevant info from
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2008/Bids/London and
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2007/London since these pages
> have a lot more detail than the 2009 page seems to have.
>
>
>
> I've also moved across the Oxford bid from last year to
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2010/Bids/UK/Oxford and updated
> it slightly. Quite why we didn't go official with one of the two bids last
> year I'll never know. There is a little bit of a danger that people will
> think I'm a joke after the somewhat embarrassing "we missed the submission
> deadline" emails I had to send to various officials last year but, well,
> fingers crossed for short memories. I know Gary was also rather disenchanted
> with the process after last year's farce, so anything we could do to avoid
> that would be great (and Gary, if you have the strength, your help would be
> much appreciated).
>
>
>
> If we're going to make this work though we really need the full support of
> Wikimedia UK. We have a lot greater chance of getting sponsorship if emails
> come from the "Director, Wikimedia UK", particularly if that's followed by
> "Registered charity number ...". It will also significantly increase our
> chances of winning if we're backed by a mature chapter. We rather seem to be
> stagnating at the moment, though I accept there's a lot to be done and there
> may be a lot being done behind the scenes. If it's any use I'm happy to take
> over any of the executive positions, e.g. treasurer for which I'm reasonably
> qualified I guess.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
> (User:Cfp)
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* wikimediauk-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
> wikimediauk-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Al Tally
> *Sent:* 07 July 2008 01:25
> *To:* wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> *Subject:* [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimania London 2010
>
>
>
> Anyone interested in helping work on a Wikimania bid for London in 2010?
> See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2010/Bids/London
>
> Apparently the odds are on Europe or North America winning, so we have a
> chance. Let's get Wikimania to the UK!
>
> --
> Al Tally
> (User:Majorly)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK
> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>
>
--
Gary Kirk
Anyone interested in helping work on a Wikimania bid for London in 2010? See
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2010/Bids/London
Apparently the odds are on Europe or North America winning, so we have a
chance. Let's get Wikimania to the UK!
--
Al Tally
(User:Majorly)