WikiVoyage Association as a thematic organization

List overview All Threads
Download

newer

older

MediaWiki data browser

Wikimedia Foundation's...

Bence Damokos

10 Mar 2013 10 Mar '13

6:18 p.m.

Dear all, I wanted to update you on behalf of the Affiliations Committee that we are now considering the application of a proposed thematic organisation to support WikiVoyage, the WikiVoyage Association, the erstwhile stewards of the project. You can see the proposal at: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikivoyage_Association We would like to invite you to participate in the discussions, express your interest to join the organisation and inform your home communities about this proposal. In particular, we would like to encourage people from around the world to apply for membership to represent the diversity of the Wikivoyagers. We will be monitoring the talk page at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikivoyage_Association to see if there is any new information that might influence the recognition process. If you have any related information you would like to share with the committee privately, please write to <affcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org>rg>. ---- A bit of background: Wikimedia thematic organisations are a new type of movement organisation, that are similar to chapters in supporting the Wikimedia mission through their activities in the real world, but instead of focusing on a given country, they focus on a given topic or theme. For more information please see: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Thematic_Organizations. Usually we send out announcements of new thematic organisation applications roughly in the middle of the recognition process to allow the wider community to express any concerns they might have and to be able to join the organisation when it is founded. This is done in the hope that it will help new organisations reach critical mass earlier and that the wider community is informed about emerging entities in the movement. Next steps in the process include the review of the organization's bylaws, and the finalization of the standard thematic organization agreement, before AffCom will be able to make a recommendation to the Board of Trustees to recognize the thematic organization. Best regards, Bence (Chair, Affiliations Committee)

Show replies by date

Federico Leva (Nemo)

10 Mar 10 Mar

6:43 p.m.

Bence Damokos, 10/03/2013 19:18:

...

We will be monitoring the talk page at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikivoyage_Association to see if there is any new information that might influence the recognition process.

I suppose you also mean <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikivoyage_Association/By-laws>? The talk is still a redlink. (What AffCom members was tasked with review of their bylaws?) Nemo

Bence Damokos

7:03 p.m.

Hi Nemo, The review of the bylaws has not yet started, hence the red links. I expect the review and the conversation around the review to take about 3-4 weeks, perhaps a bit less. Any comments you or others leave on the bylaws' talk page would be taken into account. Best regards, Bence On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 7:43 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemowiki(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:

...

Bence Damokos, 10/03/2013 19:18: We will be monitoring the talk page at

http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Talk:Wikivoyage_**Association<http://me… see if there is any new information that might influence the recognition process.

I suppose you also mean <https://meta.wikimedia.org/** wiki/Wikivoyage_Association/**By-laws<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wi… The talk is still a redlink. (What AffCom members was tasked with review of their bylaws?) Nemo ______________________________**_________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.**org <Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l<https://lists…

rupert THURNER

6:49 p.m.

hi, not sure where to put this on the talk page, but i'd really like, if they want to become affiliated and want to receive movement money, that they drop their 25/12 eur membership fee per year which blocks most people now to become member. rupert. On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Bence Damokos <bdamokos(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Dimitar Parvanov Dimitrov

6:52 p.m.

Hmmm, chapters have membership fees and they are affiliated and receive movement money. I don't see why thematic organisations should be treated differently. Dimi 2013/3/10 rupert THURNER <rupert.thurner(a)gmail.com>

...

Dear all, I wanted to update you on behalf of the Affiliations Committee that we

are

now considering the application of a proposed thematic organisation to support WikiVoyage, the WikiVoyage Association, the erstwhile stewards of the project. You can see the proposal at: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikivoyage_Association We would like to invite you to participate in the discussions, express

your

interest to join the organisation and inform your home communities about this proposal. In particular, we would like to encourage people from

around

the world to apply for membership to represent the diversity of the Wikivoyagers. We will be monitoring the talk page at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikivoyage_Association to see if

there

is any new information that might influence the recognition process. If you have any related information you would like to share with the committee privately, please write to <affcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org>rg>. ---- A bit of background: Wikimedia thematic organisations are a new type of movement organisation, that are similar to chapters in supporting the Wikimedia mission through their activities in the real world, but instead of focusing on a given country, they focus on a given topic or theme. For more information please see: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Thematic_Organizations. Usually we send out announcements of new thematic organisation

applications

roughly in the middle of the recognition process to allow the wider community to express any concerns they might have and to be able to join the organisation when it is founded. This is done in the hope that it

will

help new organisations reach critical mass earlier and that the wider community is informed about emerging entities in the movement. Next steps in the process include the review of the organization's

bylaws,

and the finalization of the standard thematic organization agreement, before AffCom will be able to make a recommendation to the Board of Trustees to recognize the thematic organization. Best regards, Bence (Chair, Affiliations Committee) _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

rupert THURNER

7:17 p.m.

hi dimi, good point, chapters have had traditionally membership fees, because in the startup phase there was no other possibility to finance it. nowadays the situation is completely changed. the yearly fundraiser gives such a high amount of money that yearly membership fees are nostalgia only. the startup grants are much higher than initial membership fees, and the yearly budgets are so high that membership fees are maybe 1% of chapters budgets. what wikipemedia projects need today are contributors. so lets focus on them. and enforce this focus wherever it is possible to enforce it. and to answer your original question as well: no, i do not think thematic organisations should be treated differently. rupert. On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 7:52 PM, Dimitar Parvanov Dimitrov <dimitar.parvanov.dimitrov(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Dear all, I wanted to update you on behalf of the Affiliations Committee that we

are

your

interest to join the organisation and inform your home communities about this proposal. In particular, we would like to encourage people from

around

the world to apply for membership to represent the diversity of the Wikivoyagers. We will be monitoring the talk page at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikivoyage_Association to see if

there

applications

will

help new organisations reach critical mass earlier and that the wider community is informed about emerging entities in the movement. Next steps in the process include the review of the organization's

bylaws,

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Federico Leva (Nemo)

7:45 p.m.

rupert THURNER, 10/03/2013 20:17:

...

good point, chapters have had traditionally membership fees, because in the startup phase there was no other possibility to finance it. [...]

Bence Damokos

9:40 p.m.

I think both of you have some good points. I would argue that currently, only a subset of chapters is fully funded from fundraising revenues, and many of the rest rely on membership fees to finance some or all of their administrative costs (while individual, more expensive programmes can be funded through WMF grants). Even in more affluent chapters the membership fee could be an easy way to require some form of commitment from the members towards the organization. (Participation in the work is dependent on membership to varying degrees at different organizations.) On the other hand, membership fees, difficult to fill out membership forms or long periods of membership approval can all act as barriers of entry. Therefore, making becoming a member as easy as possible and being sensible to the different worth in different countries or personal situations of a seemingly low membership fee are important. (Just for example, the reason I am only a member of one chapter, although I could sympathize with many more, is that I can not afford it.) Indeed, this is one of the areas that AffCom tries to look at when dealing with a new organization. Wikivoyage's current fees seem to correspond to those of Wikimedia Germany, Austria or Italy, and are slightly lower than that of Wikimedia Switzerland; to compare to chapters from the area where its membership has traditionally been based. It might be suggested that lower, discounted membership fees could encourage more members to join, as long as that is feasible with the organization's budget (this would probably apply to most organizations). Best regards, Bence On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 8:45 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemowiki(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:

...

rupert THURNER, 10/03/2013 20:17:

good point, chapters have had traditionally membership fees, because in the startup phase there was no other possibility to finance it. [...]

I question this premise. Chapters have fees because associations have fees; they should follow the laws and customs of their geography and a one-size-fits-all global regulation would be a big mistake. (It might even be illegal in some jurisdictions for some associative forms.) I also question your secondary premise that interested people are left out by fees, and I encourage you to demonstrate this claim. Nemo ______________________________**_________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.**org <Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l<https://lists…

Nathan

11 p.m.

Bence, Out of curiosity, can you describe what would happen if a separate group of people sought approval for another "thematic organization" revolving around WikiVoyage? Thanks, Nathan

Bence Damokos

11:21 p.m.

It would depend on the circumstances (e.g. the relationship between the groups, their history), but in theory thematic organizations are not meant to be fully exclusive in relation to their chosen theme. There could be more thematic organizations focusing on WikiVoyage. This possibility is one that makes naming a thematic organization an art unto itself (see the ongoing discussion at: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Thematic_Organizations#Additi… ). Do you know of any group of WikiVoyagers who would want to have a separate organization or are for some reason unhappy with the proposed ones? (If you would like to discuss this in private, feel free to use the affcom e-mail address.) Best regards, Bence On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 12:00 AM, Nathan <nawrich(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Bence, Out of curiosity, can you describe what would happen if a separate group of people sought approval for another "thematic organization" revolving around WikiVoyage? Thanks, Nathan _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Manuel Schneider

11 Mar 11 Mar

7:49 a.m.

Am 10.03.2013 20:45, schrieb Federico Leva (Nemo):

...

Chapters have fees because associations have fees; they should follow the laws and customs of their geography and a one-size-fits-all global regulation would be a big mistake. (It might even be illegal in some jurisdictions for some associative forms.) I also question your secondary premise that interested people are left out by fees, and I encourage you to demonstrate this claim.

my point of view is that sometimes it just makes sense to have fees just as a principal: If you are a serious organisation you need serious people. Having to pay a (small) fee is a certain "filter" to get people who are more serious than those who would become a member just because it sounds fun and is free anyway. /Manuel -- Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Lausanne, +41 (21) 34066-22 - www.wikimedia.ch

Federico Leva (Nemo)

8:40 a.m.

Manuel Schneider, 11/03/2013 08:49:

...

Am 10.03.2013 20:45, schrieb Federico Leva (Nemo):

Yes, and a very minimum filter is IMHO needed if you're serious about involving people (rather than just inflating statistics) in order to get stuff done and be democratic. A chapter board member wakes up every morning wondering what interests or could interest members more, and periodically chases members one by one. It's hard enough with hundreds of possibly interested and dozens of slightly-engaged people (in a non-huge chapter), it's impossible if the signal:noise ratio it too low. Think of the board members' health, their job is a hard one. ;-) Nemo

Andy Mabbett

10 Mar 10 Mar

9:36 p.m.

On 10 March 2013 18:18, Bence Damokos <bdamokos(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

You can see the proposal at: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikivoyage_Association

That and its talk page do not seem very current (last updated 12 January and, apart form a single post, 17 December last year, respectively). -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

4101

days inactive

4102

days old

wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org

Manage subscription

12 comments

7 participants

tags (0)

participants (7)

Andy Mabbett
Bence Damokos
Dimitar Parvanov Dimitrov
Federico Leva (Nemo)
Manuel Schneider
Nathan
rupert THURNER