Recap --was: Re: User interaction on Wikipedia --call for submissions - Wikimedia-l

30 Apr 2016

Hello everyone,

The reading team's interaction consultation
<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User_Interaction_Consultation> has been
wrapped up.  Thanks for those who created new accounts in order to
participate and thanks to those who spent time writing proposals and adding
ideas.  All in all we have 26 ideas.  Some ideas are more relevant to the
topic of interaction than others, and some seemed more feasible than
others,  so with these two parameters in mind, relevance and feasibility,
we have put together a shortlist, and added them as potential ideas for
brainstorming for Q1
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Reading/Quarterly_planning/Q1.   The
conversation can continue on the talk pages for each proposal or on the
talk page of Q1 planning. We added ideas to Q1 planning, which is the
earliest planning stage at the momet, however, ideas that don't get a
chance for further research or implementation in Q1, will be still be
considered for Q2, and other future plans, this is not the end of it :-).

This has been an interesting experiment, with lots of learning that
extended beyond the topic of interactivity, starting from how to avoid
jargon language on mailing lists, all the way, to how we really need to
enhance our mobile experiment to better serve our community engagement
through mobile.

Thanks to Wikimedia Foundation's communication team for their help with
promoting the consultation through our different non-wiki venues, and once
again thanks to all volunteers and staff who spent time in adding or
discussing ideas.

We are looking forward to the second phase of discussion, and to
possibilities of having proposals implemented starting Q1 or a distant
future to follow.

All the best,
Moushira

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 2:12 AM, Derek V.Giroulle <
derekvgiroulle(a)wikimedia.be&gt; wrote:

...
  Hello Moushira,

 Iḿ sorry i didn't say this explicitely , i was n persoanlly attacking you
 i was as you point  out  focussing the critic at jargon use in the WMF

 thanks
 derek

 On 16-03-16 17:58, Richard Symonds wrote:

  Thanks Moushira :-)
 On 16 Mar 2016 16:55, "Moushira Elamrawy" &lt;melamrawy(a)wikimedia.org&gt;
 wrote:

 Hello again,

 I see that we have an interesting input here.

 Let me add further context, not to give any excuses but to put things in
 their perspective. This has nothing do to with corporate or jargon
 Silicon
 Valley culture, as I simply don't live in the US, and I don't have any
 corporate background  :). I come from a design background, and while I am
 not a native English speaker, I didn't encounter any previous
 misunderstanding with using this word, in context, in the last decade,
 even
 with other non-native speakers.

 I now see the relevance of psychology in the use of the word "ideation"
 (where regardless of the article quality, we have the word used in both
 context
 <

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Ideation_%…

  still)
  . Given my non-medical background, and my previous use of the word,
 without
 failing to deliver what I needed to express at any point earlier, I,
 therefore, made a choice to include it in my email, which I wrote by
 myself
 without peer review.

 I see the point around the Foundation's seemingly repeated pattern of
 using
 words (or abbreviation) that aren't widely understood outside their
 context, or by a broader audience. While this is a valid concern, I just
 wanted to point out that our case here, is a matter of me failing to
 choose
 a term that isn't apparently jargon, because sometimes it is tricky to
 decide.

 Again, this is a good lesson on the importance of simplifying and
 globalizing my choice of words (oh, globalize could be jargon..no, not
 again ;).

 Point taken, thanks again everyone.

 Moushira

 On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Oliver Keyes &lt;ironholds(a)gmail.com&gt;
 wrote:

 While I agree with people that it's an uncommon and exclusionary
  phrase (and a confusing one!) it seems like
Moushira fully
 acknowledges this and is going to work harder on this sort of problem
 in the future, for which I laud her.

 If we want to have a general conversation about language choice at the
 WMF, broadly-construed, it seems like it would be best to kick off a
 new thread to avoid the appearance of a pileon.

 On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Derek V.Giroulle
 &lt;derekvgiroulle(a)wikimedia.be&gt; wrote:

> Hello everyone ,
>
> I agree with Fae and Craig,
> It's foreign jargon especially in this context , and on top of that
>
 jargon

> form a professional background where the term has been misused (imho)
> It has in my jargon the connotation of obsessively recurring idea ,
>
 like 
  a

> depressed patient
> always coming back to ideas of suicide : the suicidal ideation
> It would be the only place where i would allow fosuch reductive jargon
> because it has precise meaning
> i wouls never associate it with  idea generation or brainstorming what
>
 is 
  wrong with using those words
> as craig indicated : cringe worthy (business) jargon
> the mere fact that product design (business ing general) is stealing a
>
 word

> form other jargon
> show a lack of creativity of innovation
>
> I would like to call on the communications dept to start  - and i can
>
 just

> picture someone for that task - a campaign
> at WMF  to ban jargon  "simply says it better"
>
>
> derek
>
>
>
> On 16-03-16 04:39, Craig Franklin wrote:
>
>> Hi Moushira,
>>
>> The problem when you use jargon like "ideation" in this context is
>>
> that 
  you're essentially excluding anyone who
isn't familiar with the
>>
> particular

> terminology used in the field.  Especially so when there are plenty of
>> plain-English alternatives that can be used in its place.  Note that
>>
> there

> is a whole bunch of thought from experts that that word in particular
>>
> is a

> particularly obnoxious piece of jargon:
>>
>> * http://money.cnn.com/2014/10/26/pf/corporate-jargon/
>> * https://hbr.org/2008/08/why-jargon-feeds-on-lazy-minds.html
>> *
>>
>>
>> 
http://www.lifed.com/10-cringeworthy-business-jargon-examples-that-should-b…

  It's hardly the worst example I've seen
out of the WMF, but while
>>
> we're 
  on

> the topic it should be pointed out.  Just because it's used elsewhere,
>>
> it

> doesn't mean that the WMF has to fall into the same trap.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Craig
>>
>> On 16 March 2016 at 10:07, Moushira Elamrawy &lt;melamrawy(a)wikimedia.org
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Fae,
>>>
>>> Ideation phase [0], is a term widely used in product and design
>>>
>> context.

> Now, I see your point around how volunteers who are not related to
>>>
>> these

> fields, might not be familiar with it. Possibly something like, idea
>>> generation, or brainstorming could have replaced it.
>>>
>>> I am not sure though if the factors that you have listed are
>>>
>> relevant; 
  I

> think it is a matter of using a word in a certain context where it
>>> actually
>>> fits, without realizing how a broader audience would perceive it.
>>>
>>> In any case, thanks for the note :-)
>>>
>>> [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideation_%28creative_process%29
>>>
>>> Moushira
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 1:51 AM, Fæ &lt;faewik(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>>>
>>> On 15 March 2016 at 22:33, Moushira Elamrawy <
>>>>
>>> melamrawy(a)wikimedia.org 
  wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> The reading team is launching an experiment that supports early
>>>>>
>>>> engagement
>>>>
>>>>> in ideation phase, with a wide variety of users.
>>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> Hi, sorry to target your email with a more general observation,
>>>> however there seems to be a lot of odd jargon in Wikimedia
>>>> announcements over the last few months. It would be great to see
>>>>
>>> more 
  'official' emails aimed at volunteers,
written in plain and
>>>> grammatically complete English. Phrases like "ideation phase"
may be
>>>> frequently used during meetings at the Wikimedia Foundation offices,
>>>> but are unlikely to be heard in real life by volunteer contributors,
>>>> and are unlikely to be easily understood outside of corporate
>>>>
>>> America, 
  especially by those without English as their
first language.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry again about picking at your announcement rather than any
>>>>
>>> other, 
  it just stood out today.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Fae
>>>> --
>>>> faewik(a)gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>>>>
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> --
> Kind regards,
> *Derek V. Giroulle*
> Wikimedia Belgium vzw.
> Treasurer
> Troonstraat 51 Rue du Trône, BE-1050 Brussels
> M: derekvgiroulle(a)wikimedia.be
> T: +32 494 134134
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 Wikimedia Belgium vzw.
 Treasurer
 Troonstraat 51 Rue du Trône, BE-1050 Brussels
 M: derekvgiroulle(a)wikimedia.be
 T: +32 494 134134
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