anthere, thank you very much for the comments. meanwhile, i am
preparing a letter requesting for permission to use the foundation's
trademark for the conference and will email to relevant committees and
internal-l shortly.
ya, although there are lots of active chinese contributors (japanese
too i believe), i think that the language is really an obstacle for
most east asian people. user:theodoranian (aka, THD in this thread) is
probably one in zh.wikipedia i know with the best english skill, but
even he confessed that he sometimes has trouble understanding
questions or finding words to answer questions when he was in
frankfurt (sorry~~, thd). of course, his written english is good. i am
sure there are a number of chinese contributors with good english, and
the recent discussions here on the list about the chinese conference
have promoted the list among chinese contributors. i hope that there
will be more chinese participants here and on meta and irc.
thanks! i'm living in new york, where i have to use english everyday,
so that is why. 8-) i'll probably go to boston this year (it's so
near) and hopefully meet you guys.
emm, that's a great idea! i think that it will be very helpful, both
to the chinese contributors and the foundation. i believe that it will
be very productive if personal meetings are held between foundation
people and people from mainland china, taiwan, hong kong, etc, as what
have been for european people. i also believe that people from east
asian projects can bring more insights/input to the wikimania.
best,
roc
--
2006/3/17, Anthere <Anthere9(a)yahoo.com>om>:
Hello ROC
Thanks for the detailed answer. I appreciate it.
Just a couple of points
R.O.C wrote:
it was a mess, a huge mess, but gladly we are now
working together to
address it and fix it. if i were a director or officer of the foundation, i
would not feel good if i suddenly learned from the newspaper that the
chinese or any other local community on the very projects of foundation had
been planning something formal without sharing ideas and information with
the foundation and moreover some people had used a foundation trademark
without prior agreement! there were miscommunications and there are
misunderstandings.
i'm a chinese wikipedian who would like to keep anonymity at the moment (my
user page is at
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:R.O.C), and i have not
participated much in the organization of this chinese conference. but i
would like to help sorting the matter out since i understand both chinese
and english. here is some information that i would like to provide.
1) it is now realized that the chinese organizers were not keeping in touch
with the foundation, but they have been reporting everything on a wikipedia
project page (
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:2006%E4%B8%AD%E6%96%87%E7%B6%AD%E5%9…)
in chinese. the working language for the organizers has to be chinese since
few of them can use english efficiently and effectively. i will work on a
english translation page on meta as informational briefs this saturday. (of
course any help with setting it up sooner would be greatly appreciated.)
thanks
2) the chinese organizers and the community at
large have since the starting
of the projects been cohering strongly with the ideas/goals/policies of the
foundation -- because we share these same values: free and open sources,
neutrality and mutual respect among many others. this is true even if it is
not conveyed to the foundation since we have not expressed it much in
english. indeed, very few people know about this mailing list -- as an
administrator and keen user on zh.wikipedia i did not even know about it
until ~3 months ago (how shameful) and have not really utilize it until
yesterday. i can tell that the chinese community wants to develop the
chinese projects together with the foundation and the international
community at large, and this intention/dedication has never changed.
please, advertise this list as well as meta. Also, we have a nice team
of people working on all Wikimedia related topics, but most of this team
is from Europe/USA/Canada. Little by little we get more people from
South America as well. However, we still lack input from Africans and
from people from the East. If some of you participate here from time to
time, or on meta or come join irc #wikimedia channel, we should get to
know each other better.
3) frankly, i believe that the difference between
english and chinese
languages are larger than that between any two western european languages.
even though many chinese in modern mainland china and taiwan start to learn
english before primary schools, the lack of live language environment makes
it difficult for most of them to communicate in english with an acceptable
efficiency. just imagine if asking a native english speaker write in
chinese.
Well, your english appears quite good to me :-) at least, I understand
it... better than some americans :-)
4) (partly from KJ's message) contributors to
the chinese wikimedia projects
mostly reside in mainland china, taiwan, and hong kong, and the remaining
small portion locates mostly in north america, europe, and southeast asia.
the zh.wikipedia editors and administrators communicate mainly by instant
messagers online besides the wikimedia pages. many of them would like to
meet and discuss in person about problems, development, and public promotion
of wikimedia projects in chinese. many of the issues cannot be efficiently
addressed in an online meeting, a local meeting, or an international
conference. there are borders and the travel is not easy between these
separate judicial regions, so it would not be as easy or little work as a
local meet-up or a country meet-up. but the chinese community feels the need
for such a conference and believes in its benefits for better development of
wikimedia projects in future, so they would like to pursue it despite of all
difficulties.
5) (partly from KJ's message) the chinese community decided by vote after
discussion to hold the conference 3 weeks after the international meeting.
there were several considerations.
5.1) due to limited economical abilities and some visa issues, few (if not
zero) contributors in mainland china will be able to attend the
international conference. the traveling cost to boston is not a small number
for most contributors in taiwan or hong kong, either; but the traveling cost
to/in HK would be affordable. those users who can make it for wikimania are
likely to be able to travel to HK, but most users who will attend the
chinese conference would not have the ability to attend wikimania even if
there was no conference in HK. basically, holding a chinese conference in HK
would not distract attendees to wikimania in boston.
Which suggest me that it could be a good idea to find some sponsors to
help support costs for some chinese to come at Boston Wikimania.
5.2) the working language on the chinese
conference will be chinese
(probably mandarin) due to practical reasons. english interpreting service
might be offered if there is such a need and the ability. the chinese
conference will probably target largely on local or chinese
firms/organizations for sponsorship/support. so i do not feel that the
chinese conference will divert speakers or much of sponsoring
fund/resources.
5.3) the chinese community decided to hold the conference after wikimania so
that the few attendees of both conferences can report what they have learned
from wikimania to the chinese community. i think that it will actually
expand the mission and influence of wikimedia and wikimania.
5.4) many chinese contributors are college students, so holding the chinese
conference in august when they are still in summer vacation will make it
convenient for both attendees and volunteers.
6) I agree that the organization of the chinese conference has been a little
loose. i also agree that we should keep each other informed of what is going
on in a timely and efficient manner. some chinese users as individuals have
used the foundation's intellectual properties without obtaining prior
consent, eg, the "wikimania" in the provisional english name and the
wikipedia logo in the hong kong bidding poster.
6.1) i have talked to some chinese organizers and learned that there will be
better organization and managements with regards to accountability.
6.2) a meta page about the chinese conference will be set up (before this
saturday) for information and english media releases. chief chinese
organizers will also use the foundation-l or other appropriate mailing lists
for communications of ideas with the foundation and other communities. I
have agreed to help identify and bridge any language difficulties / culture
gaps between the two parts of our community.
6.3) i hope that the community can help choosing an english translation for
the chinese name of conference, in accordance with foundation policies. the
chinese community/conference would like to seek the authorization for using
names/trademarks of the foundation, if needed. the name of the chinese
conference is "中文維基年會" (literally, "chinese language wikipedia/wikimedia
annual conference").
I rather think the "chinese language wikimedia conference" would be
best. It allows to have several meeting in the same year :-) and it
involves editors from all projects, not wikipedia only.
6.3.1) i personally prefer the name "chinese
wikimedia conference" and would
like to know the procedures for seeking permissions from the foundation
regarding the use of "wikimedia". there is no local chapters serving chinese
projects at the moment (may not be any time soon either).
As far as I am concerned, the use of wikimedia name is okay.
6.4) as explained earlier, the english (or
western) word of "wikimania" had
been interpreted and understood in chinese differently as it is supposed to
be. the organizers and chinese users have been informed at zh.wikipedia that
wikimania does not mean "wikimedia conference", but "international
wikimedia
conference" (sponsored by wikimedia foundation); it is also a trading name
of wikimedia foundation instead of a generic term.
hope that this is helpful.
Yes.
Very helpful.
Thanks ROC
Anthere
roc (User:R.O.C)
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