M.,
And your point is?
My statement:
>the uncontroversial truth
> is that a small group of 16 editors decided that all titles of
> articles and titles and content of Wikipedia pages would be
> "translated" into Brazilian Portuguese starting January 1, 2009.
> Since that time there is no longer a Wikipedia that a Portuguese can
> read without being full of gramatical mistakes.
See any mistakes or anything wrong in that statement?
Do you prefer "pious statements to the contrary",
"sand in the eyes" or "fog of war in MUD games"
Do you know any other good expressions that might apply?
Sincerely,
Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapmachado)
Brazilian Portuguese Wikipedia Public Enemy Number One
At 01:21 07-12-2010, you wrote:
>Also from your talk page:
>
>A partir de 1 de janeiro de 2009, as normas do Acordo Ortográfico de
>1990 passaram a ser usadas de forma preferencial na Wikipédia de
>língua portuguesa, passando a ser redigidas em conformidade todas as
>"páginas oficiais" da Wikipédia (menus, políticas, recomendações,
>resolução de problemas, guias de ajuda, FAQ e glossário), bem como a
>página principal e os títulos de todos os artigos. No entanto, é
>mantida a liberdade de cada utilizador usar qualquer uma das três
>normas ortográficas e ficam interditas quaisquer edições que visem
>alterar a grafia das palavras de uma norma para outra (exceto nas
>"páginas oficiais", página principal e títulos de artigos, onde as
>regras de 1990 prevalecem).
>
>Translation: From 1 January 2009, the norms of the Orthographic
>Agreement of 1990 will become used preferentially in the Portuguese
>language Wikipedia, with all of the "official pages" of Wikipedia
>being redrafted to conform to it (menus, policies, recommendations,
>problem resolution, help guides, FAQ and glossary), as well as on the
>Main Page and the titles of all articles. However, the freedom of each
>user to use whichever of the three orthographic norms is maintained
>and any edits that seek to change the spelling of words from one norm
>to the other remain prohibited (except on the "official pages", the
>main page and article titles, where the 1990 rules shall prevail).
>
>As far as I can tell, this decision was reached by consensus, and the
>Acordo Ortográfico of 1990 is technically official in Portugal,
>although it may not yet be used in schools.
>
>-m.
>
>2010/12/6 Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam(a)fct.unl.pt>:
> > Pedro,
> >
> > Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you or anybody. I thought people
> > knew. It's the Brazilian Portuguese Wikipedia. Unfortunately, despite
> > all most pious statements to the contrary, the uncontroversial truth
> > is that a small group of 16 editors decided that all titles of
> > articles and titles and content of Wikipedia pages would be
> > "translated" into Brazilian Portuguese starting January 1, 2009.
> > Since that time there is no longer a Wikipedia that a Portuguese can
> > read without being full of gramatical mistakes. Think about what good
> > that is for the children, the elderly, and the low educated
> > Portuguese speaking population. Hey! I got my first block
> >
> (http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1rio_Discuss%C3%A3o:Vapmachado#Bloquea…)
> > for trying to write these Wikipedia pages
> >
> (http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1rio:Vapmachado/Artigos_e_Coment%C3%A1…)
> > the same way as ALL my students. Kind of hard to deny based on that
> > evidence, isn't it. There's more to that block than this, but this is
> > already a long answer (always my problem) to a very short question.
> > At least I expect to have been thorough. Any other question, please
> > don't hesitate. You can always contact me in private so that we will
> > reach a consensus out of the limelight.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapamchado)
> >
> >
> > At 23:59 06-12-2010, you wrote:
> >>On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Virgilio A.
> P. Machado <vam(a)fct.unl.pt> wrote:
> >> > Adam,
> >> >
> >> > What a timely post. What an opportunity to test the Santa Claus
> >> > hierarchical structure.
> >> > (...)
> >> > If you do succeed in bringing any change to Commons through this
> >> > request of yours, I will follow with a similar one of my own
> >> > concerning the Brazilian Wikipedia, whose de facto "president"
> >> > (...)
> >> > Sincerely,
> >> >
> >> > Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapmachado)
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>is that br.wikipedia.org or.. is there a new wiki I don't know of?
> >>(I'm sorry to be so ignorant)
> >>
Also from your talk page:
A partir de 1 de janeiro de 2009, as normas do Acordo Ortográfico de
1990 passaram a ser usadas de forma preferencial na Wikipédia de
língua portuguesa, passando a ser redigidas em conformidade todas as
"páginas oficiais" da Wikipédia (menus, políticas, recomendações,
resolução de problemas, guias de ajuda, FAQ e glossário), bem como a
página principal e os títulos de todos os artigos. No entanto, é
mantida a liberdade de cada utilizador usar qualquer uma das três
normas ortográficas e ficam interditas quaisquer edições que visem
alterar a grafia das palavras de uma norma para outra (exceto nas
"páginas oficiais", página principal e títulos de artigos, onde as
regras de 1990 prevalecem).
Translation: From 1 January 2009, the norms of the Orthographic
Agreement of 1990 will become used preferentially in the Portuguese
language Wikipedia, with all of the "official pages" of Wikipedia
being redrafted to conform to it (menus, policies, recommendations,
problem resolution, help guides, FAQ and glossary), as well as on the
Main Page and the titles of all articles. However, the freedom of each
user to use whichever of the three orthographic norms is maintained
and any edits that seek to change the spelling of words from one norm
to the other remain prohibited (except on the "official pages", the
main page and article titles, where the 1990 rules shall prevail).
As far as I can tell, this decision was reached by consensus, and the
Acordo Ortográfico of 1990 is technically official in Portugal,
although it may not yet be used in schools.
-m.
2010/12/6 Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam(a)fct.unl.pt>:
> Pedro,
>
> Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you or anybody. I thought people
> knew. It's the Brazilian Portuguese Wikipedia. Unfortunately, despite
> all most pious statements to the contrary, the uncontroversial truth
> is that a small group of 16 editors decided that all titles of
> articles and titles and content of Wikipedia pages would be
> "translated" into Brazilian Portuguese starting January 1, 2009.
> Since that time there is no longer a Wikipedia that a Portuguese can
> read without being full of gramatical mistakes. Think about what good
> that is for the children, the elderly, and the low educated
> Portuguese speaking population. Hey! I got my first block
> (http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1rio_Discuss%C3%A3o:Vapmachado#Bloquea…)
> for trying to write these Wikipedia pages
> (http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1rio:Vapmachado/Artigos_e_Coment%C3%A1…)
> the same way as ALL my students. Kind of hard to deny based on that
> evidence, isn't it. There's more to that block than this, but this is
> already a long answer (always my problem) to a very short question.
> At least I expect to have been thorough. Any other question, please
> don't hesitate. You can always contact me in private so that we will
> reach a consensus out of the limelight.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapamchado)
>
>
> At 23:59 06-12-2010, you wrote:
>>On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam(a)fct.unl.pt> wrote:
>> > Adam,
>> >
>> > What a timely post. What an opportunity to test the Santa Claus
>> > hierarchical structure.
>> > (...)
>> > If you do succeed in bringing any change to Commons through this
>> > request of yours, I will follow with a similar one of my own
>> > concerning the Brazilian Wikipedia, whose de facto "president"
>> > (...)
>> > Sincerely,
>> >
>> > Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapmachado)
>> >
>> >
>>
>>is that br.wikipedia.org or.. is there a new wiki I don't know of?
>>(I'm sorry to be so ignorant)
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>foundation-l mailing list
>>foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
> Prof. Virgilio A. P. Machado vam(a)fct.unl.pt
> Engenharia
> Industrial
> http://web.archive.org/web/20070824105539/www.ipei.pt/GDEI/
> DEMI/FCT/UNL Fax: 351-21-294-8546 or 21-294-8531
> Universidade de Portugal or 351-21-295-4461
> 2829-516 Caparica Tel.: 351-21-294-8542 or 21-294-8567
> PORTUGAL or 351-21-294-8300 or 21 294-8500
> Ext.112-32
> 96-577-3726
> Faculdade de Ciencias e Tecnologia/UNL (FCT/UNL)
>
> (Dr. Machado is Associate Professor of Industrial Engineering at the
> School of Sciences and Engineering/UNL of the University of Portugal)
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
Wouldn't an RFC on meta be the appropriate channel to voice both issues?
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/RFC
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam(a)fct.unl.pt>wrote:
> Pedro,
>
> Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you or anybody. I thought people
> knew. It's the Brazilian Portuguese Wikipedia. Unfortunately, despite
> all most pious statements to the contrary, the uncontroversial truth
> is that a small group of 16 editors decided that all titles of
> articles and titles and content of Wikipedia pages would be
> "translated" into Brazilian Portuguese starting January 1, 2009.
> Since that time there is no longer a Wikipedia that a Portuguese can
> read without being full of gramatical mistakes. Think about what good
> that is for the children, the elderly, and the low educated
> Portuguese speaking population. Hey! I got my first block
> (
> http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1rio_Discuss%C3%A3o:Vapmachado#Bloquea…
> )
> for trying to write these Wikipedia pages
> (
> http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1rio:Vapmachado/Artigos_e_Coment%C3%A1…
> )
> the same way as ALL my students. Kind of hard to deny based on that
> evidence, isn't it. There's more to that block than this, but this is
> already a long answer (always my problem) to a very short question.
> At least I expect to have been thorough. Any other question, please
> don't hesitate. You can always contact me in private so that we will
> reach a consensus out of the limelight.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapamchado)
>
>
> At 23:59 06-12-2010, you wrote:
> >On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam(a)fct.unl.pt>
> wrote:
> > > Adam,
> > >
> > > What a timely post. What an opportunity to test the Santa Claus
> > > hierarchical structure.
> > > (...)
> > > If you do succeed in bringing any change to Commons through this
> > > request of yours, I will follow with a similar one of my own
> > > concerning the Brazilian Wikipedia, whose de facto "president"
> > > (...)
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > > Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapmachado)
> > >
> > >
> >
> >is that br.wikipedia.org or.. is there a new wiki I don't know of?
> >(I'm sorry to be so ignorant)
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >foundation-l mailing list
> >foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> >Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
> Prof. Virgilio A. P. Machado vam(a)fct.unl.pt
> Engenharia
> Industrial
> http://web.archive.org/web/20070824105539/www.ipei.pt/GDEI/
> DEMI/FCT/UNL Fax: 351-21-294-8546 or 21-294-8531
> Universidade de Portugal or 351-21-295-4461
> 2829-516 Caparica Tel.: 351-21-294-8542 or
> 21-294-8567
> PORTUGAL or 351-21-294-8300 or 21 294-8500
> Ext.112-32
> 96-577-3726
> Faculdade de Ciencias e Tecnologia/UNL (FCT/UNL)
>
> (Dr. Machado is Associate Professor of Industrial Engineering at the
> School of Sciences and Engineering/UNL of the University of Portugal)
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
--
Best Regards,
Muhammad Yahia
Pedro,
Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you or anybody. I thought people
knew. It's the Brazilian Portuguese Wikipedia. Unfortunately, despite
all most pious statements to the contrary, the uncontroversial truth
is that a small group of 16 editors decided that all titles of
articles and titles and content of Wikipedia pages would be
"translated" into Brazilian Portuguese starting January 1, 2009.
Since that time there is no longer a Wikipedia that a Portuguese can
read without being full of gramatical mistakes. Think about what good
that is for the children, the elderly, and the low educated
Portuguese speaking population. Hey! I got my first block
(http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1rio_Discuss%C3%A3o:Vapmachado#Bloquea…)
for trying to write these Wikipedia pages
(http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1rio:Vapmachado/Artigos_e_Coment%C3%A1…)
the same way as ALL my students. Kind of hard to deny based on that
evidence, isn't it. There's more to that block than this, but this is
already a long answer (always my problem) to a very short question.
At least I expect to have been thorough. Any other question, please
don't hesitate. You can always contact me in private so that we will
reach a consensus out of the limelight.
Sincerely,
Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapamchado)
At 23:59 06-12-2010, you wrote:
>On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam(a)fct.unl.pt> wrote:
> > Adam,
> >
> > What a timely post. What an opportunity to test the Santa Claus
> > hierarchical structure.
> > (...)
> > If you do succeed in bringing any change to Commons through this
> > request of yours, I will follow with a similar one of my own
> > concerning the Brazilian Wikipedia, whose de facto "president"
> > (...)
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapmachado)
> >
> >
>
>is that br.wikipedia.org or.. is there a new wiki I don't know of?
>(I'm sorry to be so ignorant)
>
>_______________________________________________
>foundation-l mailing list
>foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Prof. Virgilio A. P. Machado vam(a)fct.unl.pt
Engenharia
Industrial
http://web.archive.org/web/20070824105539/www.ipei.pt/GDEI/
DEMI/FCT/UNL Fax: 351-21-294-8546 or 21-294-8531
Universidade de Portugal or 351-21-295-4461
2829-516 Caparica Tel.: 351-21-294-8542 or 21-294-8567
PORTUGAL or 351-21-294-8300 or 21 294-8500
Ext.112-32
96-577-3726
Faculdade de Ciencias e Tecnologia/UNL (FCT/UNL)
(Dr. Machado is Associate Professor of Industrial Engineering at the
School of Sciences and Engineering/UNL of the University of Portugal)
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam(a)fct.unl.pt> wrote:
> Adam,
>
> What a timely post. What an opportunity to test the Santa Claus
> hierarchical structure.
> (...)
> If you do succeed in bringing any change to Commons through this
> request of yours, I will follow with a similar one of my own
> concerning the Brazilian Wikipedia, whose de facto "president"
> (...)
> Sincerely,
>
> Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapmachado)
>
>
is that br.wikipedia.org or.. is there a new wiki I don't know of?
(I'm sorry to be so ignorant)
Adam,
What a timely post. What an opportunity to test the Santa Claus
hierarchical structure.
I do feel your pain, but given my extensive experience of bring up
all sorts of shenanigans to the attention of this list and meeting
the most deafening silence, I'm taking bets on what kind of response
you going to get here or anywhere else, including where it would
matter most: Commons. The house, as always, has an advantage: it has
been already more then three hours since you posted your message and
the response has been an overwhelming zero.
If you do succeed in bringing any change to Commons through this
request of yours, I will follow with a similar one of my own
concerning the Brazilian Wikipedia, whose de facto "president" has
recently delivered a speech that includes some well oiled quotes like
"I'm not a crook."
Actually the place is falling apart from rot: no bureaucrats, no
checkusers, and an arbcom which is the epitome of fairness and due
procedure, and now under the spell of a steward that lay in waiting
for his time to take over. All of you that are believers join me in
prayer for the salvation of that project, although I think that is
not going to be enough. Things are going to get a lot worse, before
they have a chance to get better, if ever.
Best of luck to you too, Carolina.
Sincerely,
Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapmachado)
At 20:25 06-12-2010, you wrote:
>It concerns me greatly that Commons seems unable to deal with a user who, at
>various times, has attacked a Jew with anti-semitic cartoons, has thrown
>racist abuse at a German theen harassed that user - and still has numbers of
>admins willing to unblock him, simply because he does supposedly good work
>on Deletion reviews. Diod I mention the Jew was blocked for several months
>for A SINGLE COMPLAINT ABOUT HIS BEHAVIOUR?
>
>
>Pieter has harassed numerous users away from contributing to Wikipedia. That
>he is still editing after all he's done is disgraceful. Commons'
>administration has clearly failed, and failed horribly.
>
>A list of evidence follows:
>
>The most recent incident was racist abuse against a German user, followed by
>harassment
>http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Martin_H.&curid=11…
>http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Farrel.jpg and
>http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Tiotio.jpg
>
>The report, which before I noticed and acted upon it was full of people
>claiming that racist abuse was fine, and that Pieter was being harassed by
>being called out on it, is here:
>
>http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Use…
>
>
>Pieter has a block log as long as your arm:
>http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=User%3APiet…
>
>However, he also has an unblock log, where the same few admins constantly
>unblock him, without insisting on a change in the problematic behaviour.
>This is a user who gets serial warnings and second chances, all the time
>becoming bolder and bolder.
>
>A few past incidents will suffice:
>
>The Wall of Shame incident, and the Havang_nl harassment.
>
>Pieter's modus operandi has been to attempt to harass admins who do things
>he dislikes by scouring their image uploads to find something to request
>deletion on. The validity of these deletions varies in quality, and are
>often grasping at straws. Several of the blocks in the block log are for
>this.
>
>One of the clearest incidents was when he attempted to refight old battles
>where the DR had gone against him, attacking the admins who uploaded and the
>admins who closed the DRs as keep. Here's the wall of shame he created.
>
>http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3APieter_Kuiper&action=…
>
>The next few edits are him editwarring to keep the Wall of Shame up. He got
>blocked for this. He made an unblock, and Havang_nl denied it. So he
>promptly attacked Havang.
>
>http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APieter_Kuiper&ac…
>
>----
>
>I believe there were other incidents involving antisemitic cartoons being
>used to attack Mbz1, a Jew, but one can be found here, where he constantly
>insists on including a cartoon which he knows will upset said Jew.
>
>http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Pieter_Kuiper/Arch…
>http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Pieter_Kuiper/Arch…
>http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Pieter_Kuiper/Arch…
>this was followed by a WP:POINTy FPC nomination
>http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Featured_picture_candidates/File:…
>
>
>It's clear that Commons cannot handle him, and I beseech the Foundation to
>step in, investigate the matter, and deal with it. I also think that every
>administrator invoilved in defending him, and encouraging the harassment of
>other users, should lose their admin rights.
I just wanted to write in to compliment all those who are behind the
banners on the site right now-- Personal Appeals from individual
editors with inspiring visions about how Wikimedia can help change the
world for the better.
This, to me, is is what a 'Wikimedia Fundraiser' should feel like--
it's hopeful, it's upbeat. It's visionary, it's populist. It's
polished and sleek without boring and homogenous. It pulls at the
readers heartstrings, and it effectively communicates 'why' everyone
cares so much about this movement. The personal appeals remind us
that we're not "just a cool website" run by a gaggle of geeks-- we're
a social movement trying to help bring light to all the corners of the
globe.
Personal Appeals for Individual Editors keeps the greatest things
about the Personal Appeal from Jimmy Wales banner that's been so
successful. This only downside to running the Jimmy banner is
Jimmy's voice is only one voice-- and Wikimedia isn't about one
voice, it's about billions of voices and billions of visions, all
working together.
Thus, I love that the new banners are featuring a multiplicity of
visions-- each personal appeal is, in fact, personal. We all have
different reasons that people from all over the world have come
together to contribute and edit together-- a beautiful thing indeed.
And that beauty has been allowed, in these current ads, to really
shine through to our readers-- readers who may know about the site's
usefulness, but maybe don't know about the passion of our community
and the visions we share for transforming the world for the better.
--
Last year, the banners seemed to be a lot more monolithic in their
tone, a lot more generic and imperative in their plea for funds. They
just didn't seem to capture the true awesomeness of wikimedia, they
seemed like 'something an ad company would design'. (Mind you, my
aesthetic-based predictions aside, last year's banners were a
record-breaking success, which is why I'm glad we hired professionals
to do this, instead of just letting me make those decisions. :) )
But, as impressed as I was with last year's fundraiser, I'm really
loving this year's banners. The personal appeals from individual
editors are a campaign I'm proud to call our own. It "feels" like us.
It has the voice I kinda want Wikimedia to project. This new
campaign doesn't 'feel' like it was designed by some cookie-cutter PR
firm, this campaign feels like it was designed by "us", the members
of the movement. (And mind you, I don't actually know who did this,
so if professionals did it, that's just an even greater testament to
their skill at having 'got' the wikimedia movement".
The fundraiser is probably a thankless job. A few people have to try
to do very important work, while everyone else gets to stand back and
advise, instruct, critique, and satirize. Since I've show up a
couple of times in the past to complain when I felt things we were on
the wrong track, so I felt especially called to come and speak up when
I felt so passionately that those same people are people are doing a
truly stupendous job.
So great work! I think new banners are an invaluable tool--
communicating not just our need for funding, but also sharing our
amazing vision with our readers. Many thanks to all who are working
so hard on this!
Alec
On 4 December 2010 23:42, Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam(a)fct.unl.pt> wrote:
> Could you please tell how long you have been around Wikimedia
> projects? I would like to have an idea of how much time it takes to
> find out that "we have at least three hierarchical structures." You
> left out at least Santa Claus.
>
> Totally dismayed,
>
> Virgilio A. P. Machado
>
Since mid 2004. The existence of arbcom and the foundation are hardly
classified.
--
geni
Could you please tell how long you have been around Wikimedia
projects? I would like to have an idea of how much time it takes to
find out that "we have at least three hierarchical structures." You
left out at least Santa Claus.
Totally dismayed,
Virgilio A. P. Machado
At 14:50 04-12-2010, you wrote:
>On 26 November 2010 01:35, <WJhonson(a)aol.com> wrote:
> > In a message dated 11/25/2010 3:31:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > geniice(a)gmail.com writes:
> >
> >
> >> On 25 November 2010 22:15, <WJhonson(a)aol.com> wrote:
> >> > We have Geni, many ways to determine if someone is an established
> >> editor.
> >>
> >> Name one that doesn't boil down to editcountitis
> >>
> >> > We have flags already to mark people as established editors in addition
> >> to
> >> > that.
> >>
> >> I for one have no wish to turn requests for rollback in a mini RFA
> >> more than has already happened.
> >>
> >
> > The police always think they are doing a fine job and don't need any
> > accountability.
> > All democracies have checks and balances. Those who do not, are police
> > states.
> >
> > Our single hierarchical structure is just such a system with no checks and
> > balances.
>
>
>Actually we have at least 3.
>
>Editor, admin bureaucrat, steward, dev.
>
>everyone, arbcom
>
>Everyone, foundation, foundation board.
>
>--
>geni
