themselves. For Lir, leaving multiple small edit issue, may looked at alone I would other '''recent''' another phony user legitimately lifted. Fred is quite correct. Remember this is a user who has been hard banned numerous times. They approached Jimbo and PROMISED that they would not come on under an assumed identity again. They gave their word. In the circumstances, they could have got Jimbo's agreement to come on again as themselves. They could have waited for the specified period then come back. But they instead went back on their word (yet again) and came on as an assumed identity, in the process giving the two fingers to Jimbo and the wiki rules on banning. As to Adam not committing offences - it isn't for the want of trying. One of Adam/Lir/Vera Cruz/Susan Mason/Dietary Fiber/Shino Baku etc's standard 'games' has been to provoke rows. One particular stunt they used to pull was to enter a page where an edit war had been taking place and just as peace was breaking out say or do something that would re-ignite it. I have seen 'Pizza Puzzle' try that once so far. (Luckily the people in question from past experience knew the 'game' and wouldn't play!) PP placed bizarre messages on talk pages (I got one that said ''Adam [name omitted for privacy reasons] is a troll'), in a attempt to provoke a reaction. Knowing Adam's 'game' I ignored it.) When that failed a provocative message was left on PP's user page by PP, proclaiming how they were a troll, again to see could they start a row. By then people had pretty much worked out PP's identity and after some emails and AIM messages (used so that Adam could not read them, which he would do if they were on talk pages) decided to ignore his latest bit of 'look at me. I'm a troll. Wanna fight?' antics. So he tried another tried and trusted method. He voted then 'unvoted' on the dates vote page, in the hope that (as happened when he was 'Susan Mason') someone would react with a 'what the fuck do you think you are doing' response; he could then assume victim mode and get a few newbies to rush to his defence and turn the page into a nasty fight. But only one person challenged him on that, so that fizzled out. Next try - remove someone's vote. So far that hasn't resulted in a major row of the sort that Adam as Lir, Vera and Susan seemed to love starting. All of which poses the question: so what is next? What stunt with Adam try next to stir up a row? Going by past experience he will keep trying. Rows are the one thing Adam in all his identities has contributed to wiki. He seems to get a kick out of starting them off. If wiki is to thrive as an encyclop�dia, it needs to be able to deal with the likes of Adam (now back on when he shouldn't be), Michael (though banned numerous times still coming on daily to vandalise pages) and Ron (aka DW, Black Widow, Elliot, Jacques Delson, 64.228.30.125, Joe Canuck and now ChuckM). Ron has been on almost continually, not withstanding constant hardbans since August 2002. Indeed Ron's contempt for wiki can be seen in the fact that he often has two 'identities' in use at once, an IP for editing and a named page for insulting. The fact that ChuckM, which he created on the 10th of June could suddenly be brought back on the 22nd, after his previous identity Joe Canuck was banned on the 20th shows his contempt for wiki - one of his first acts was to remove the ban notice from Canuck's page, then insult MyRedDice and accuse Wapcaplet, then remove a note from me on the VfD page urging a quick deletion of Canuck's dodgy images. Our 'softly softly . . . maybe they might change' nonsense is not working. Michael still defaces articles. Ron still downloads dodgy images and Adam swans back giving Jimbo two fingers again and again and again. As a hardbanned user, there should be no need for a debate. The rules said explicitly that Adam should be banned immediately. Whether he writes good articles is irrelevant. He has no right to be here and as someone who can't even be bothered to keep his promises to Jimbo, we owe it to ourselves, Jimbo and Wiki to ban him as soon as possible, as often as needs be. So that Adam, Ron, Michael and everyone else gets the clear unambiguous message 'wiki is a troll-free zone. All trolls will be barred on sight.', rather than our current message ' em . . . we'll talk about it and talk about it, and then talk about it a bit more. And when you are finally banned and come back, we'll do a lot more talking, not acting. So you have nothing to worry about.' JT