--- Toby Bartels <toby+wikipedia(a)math.ucr.edu> wrote:
Anthere wrote:
what does that mean "ilk" ?
Short answer: It means "type".
Long answer: That's a good question.
The OED says that every usage of "ilk" is either
obsolete, Scottish, or erroneous (exactly 1).
The usage that I know, and that Zoe was using,
is the one labelled "erroneous" by the OED:
"that ilk: That family, class, set, or 'lot'.
Also, by further extension, = kind, sort."
Apparently, Zoe's usage of "their" instead of "that"
is too erroneous even to merit inclusion.
(Which is not a criticism of Zoe, but of the OED.)
Many American dictionaries don't mention this
meaning at all,
while others give it as the only meaning;
"Type or kind" says one; "a kind of person", says
another.
Among American dictionaries, only Merriam-Webster
seems to know about all 3 kinds of usage
(still only the OED calls the 3rd "erroneous").
None of these dictionaries mention what I think is
most important
for understanding Zoe's comment -- it's
*derogatory*.
Being of a certain ilk is to be a *bad* kind of
thing.
I can't find any online English -> French
translation dictionary
that's ever heard of the word.
-- Toby
I found it in a french english dictionary. It was
translated by "type" (type) or "genre" (kind) with a
strong "pejorative" meaning.
But "genre" ou "type" for us, does not carry the
"really bad" .
I think the nearest proper translation for us would be
"clique", such as when we say "Bush et sa clique",
expression which carry some "bad". (but possibly
english and french do not give the same meaning to the
word clique).
I looked in my American Heritage dictionnary, and
found the ancient meaning refered to "people of the
same place, some territories, or names", mostly
landowners. That sounds very much like the scottish
"clan" to me.
All right. That is an expression I like. Thanks alot Zoe
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