Ray Saintonge wrote:
K P wrote:
> Oh
please, calling oneself a pimp as a user name and saying, "Gotta
> keep the pimp hand strong" is about as misogynist as it gets. Oh,
> wait, it goes one better. There's a "this user is a pimp" user box.
> I put it on my user page along with a thousand others, and no one
> gives a shit. It's cute and something that boys do, and all the boy's
> friends will slam down anyone who objects to the boy proudly
> displaying his misogyn--so I found out
You also might be less likely to be
sensitive to it for obvious
reasons. There are many things that men simply don't look twice at,
that many women would find misogynist because they look at it from a
different angle. I don't find the turning of "pimp" into an
acceptable verb to be acceptable, mostly because the men who flaunt it
seem to be using it in the old and more familiar sense, and are just
taking advantage of, or lying about, its meaning in the vernacular.
But many men I know who I don't think are misogynists, don't see
anything offensive with "pimp my ride."
This says more about the evolution of language. Words adapt to the
circumstances that use them. When you judge the word on the basis of
the minority that flaunt it isn't that being just a little misandrian.
Sure men look on these things differently, and wonder what all the fuss
was about when women want to dwell upon something that was never
intended. Being offended by the activities of the traditional pimp
should not be equated with being offended by the use of the word.
My son for example doesn't find the
expression "pimp my ride" and
related expressions offensive, and thinks I'm over-reacting that I do
find them offended--"It's the vernacular, Mom, that language you
adore." Yet, he considers it offensive to call someone a pimp as a
compliment.
Sounds like a normal kid. (age? - mine is 17) Then too dealing with
real pimps has probably not been part of his personal experiences.
My comment wasn't really about this
particular comment though, but
that it's so common on Wikipedia for me to hear and come across
obviously misogynist exchanges--and it's tiresome to hear
announcements of it not being present, by those least likely to
encounter it. It's no wonder there are so few women in the upper
echelons on Wikipedia, imo, in a culture that is so damn accepting and
ignorant of how it makes women outsiders.
It should tell you something that the
majority of persons who have been
elected the the Board by the community have been women. That's a neat
trick to come from an electorate so full of misogynists.
I don't doubt that you have frequently encountered language on the part
of others which you consider misogynistic. If it's coming from those
"least likely to encounter it" you have disconnect more than you have
misogyny. Not everybody is at the same place in the spectrum of gender
politics. Those of us with experience in female dominated circumstances
are not overly concerned about the gender of the person across the table
from us. He or she is simply what he or she is. Gender relations falls
apart when you start imputing misogynistic motives that were never there.
Ec
It's no wonder there are so few women in the upper echelons on
Wikipedia, imo, in a culture that is so damn accepting and ignorant of
how it makes women outsiders.
Many years ago, I started this page:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_WikiWomen
Largely outdated now, but recently, I added a picture there, that you
can see on the top left hand side.
I will not comment on the "few women in the upper echelons of
Wikipedia", but I can comment on the "very numerous women in the upper
echelons of the Foundation".
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikimania_2007_dungodung_79.jpg
this is a picture taken at Wikimania, the first wikichix meeting.
From top, going to the right
Sue Gardner, head of executive
Henna, dev, from netherlands
Phoebe, usa, leader of Wikimania 2006 and co-organiser of 2007
Frieda, italian, chair of Wikimedia Italy, board member of WMF
Delphine, french, chapter coordinator of WMF
Oooops, memory hole...
Brianna, australia, wikicommons (keen I think)
Another memory hole, shame on me. She is german and very involved in
various Wikimedia Deutschland activity.
Kat, usa, board member
Aphaia, japanese, translation committee head
Anthere, chair of WMF
Sandy, communication manager
And I could cite many other good people missing here.
Angela, previous board member, now chair of advisory board
Sabine, new fundraising manager
Elly, chair of Wikimedia Netherlands
Alison, chair of Wikimedia UK
Why is that that women seem to drift away from editing proper, to deal
with more "organization" matters ? Less bullshit probably. Less
agressivity. Smaller groups where people know each other. Hard to say.
But in the organization proper, I would say there is no mysogyny. If you
want to join and help, there is a LOT to do :-)
Ant