Agreeing in large part with George's insightful commentary. Adding a few
points outside the range of his comments.
Regarding block duration, extremely short blocks tend to backfire. Human
nature is that people usually become less grumpy after a good meal and a
night's rest. Nearly everyone will eat and sleep within 24 hours, so my
threshold for civility blocks was 'Did this go far enough that the person
should sleep on it?' If it wasn't that serious then the thing to do is
engage the editor politely or shrug it off. It's a misnomer to call really
short blocks 'cool-down blocks': an editor who gets blocked at 9pm after
missing dinner may return in the wee hours hungrier, more fatigued and more
upset than before.
A lot of editors won't promise to cease the behavior either. We often can't
get that type of promise even for situations where it's really needed such
as threats and privacy policy violations. Often enough the editor is
actually willing to not do it again, but dislikes the one-down position they
perceive in that. It comes too close to a coerced apology for some people's
tastes. So while it may be appropriate to seek this promise before
unblocking for bannable behavior, garden variety incivility doesn't merit
it--unless perhaps the incivility itself is so habitual and extreme that
it's actually bannable.
Also it's very important for administrators to familiarize themselves with
the surrounding context. Incivility is easy to determine, but the cause of
an editor's frustration may be less visible. Disruptive editors who become
wise to that may try to exploit that. The classic example was the
Jmfangio-Chrisjnelson arbitration case. Chris had serious civility problems
and seemed on his way to a siteban. I blocked him for incivility while the
case was ongoing, and a few minutes after his block an impersonation account
appeared with a username that resembled the other party and trolled until it
got blocked. That's Chris socking, right? Actually no. Checkuser revealed
that Jmfangio was actually the reincarnation of a community banned editor,
and a *second* sneaky IP editor had created the impersonation sock. The
timing of that sock's creation suggested very strongly that the IP editor
was trying to frame Chris and get him banned. What really happened was that
Chris was trollable, and two trolls had been baiting him. The trolls both
got banned properly and Chris has about 50,000 edits now.
Admins, please remember that there may be more below the surface when you
see incivility.
-Durova
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 5:39 AM, Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86(a)comcast.net>wrote;wrote:
Marc Riddell wrote:
> on 2/15/09 2:59 PM, WJhonson(a)aol.com wrote:
>
>> Many cases of "incivility" are in-my-mind completely justified.
>>
> Will, by this statement, and your attitudes displayed in other of your
posts
> on this subject clearly shows that you are a
big part of the problem
here.
> What really are your objections to this whole
issue?
>
> on 2/16/09 4:36 AM, Ray Saintonge at saintonge(a)telus.net wrote:
This really highlights a quite different aspect
of the problem: how we
use words. An absence of linguistic rigour is not at all rare in this
kind of discussion. I think that Will is using the word in a very broad
sense while you are reading it more narrowly and precisely. Perhaps
"understandable" or even "pardonable" may have been a better choice.
Edit wars have often broken out in article space over the subtleties of
imperfect synonyms. In time one hopes to find a word that will satisfy
both parties. A word used in a mailing thread is not so easily
retractable when it is unintentionally misused or ambiguous. Some Brit
earlier in this thread listed a number of. words that he considered
uncivil when they were used to characterise a person. One of these
words was "wanker". From the perspective of the left side of the pond
this is just one more of these quaintly humorous British words.
Third party interventions in cases of perceived incivility should only
take place where the offence is clear. Two thick skinned editors can
often exchange epithets one day, and be at their co-operative best the
next day on a different issue.
In cases of schoolyard bullying it is important to consider the
interests of the bullied as well as the bully. Kind words can go a long
way with a traumatised newbie.
Thank you for this, Ray. And thank you, most especially, for the last
sentence. The road toward constructive collaboration is going to be a rocky
one. But I do believe the majority of the community is firmly behind it.
That is why I'm still here.
Marc
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