In discussions of probable cause there is usually a
notion of weighing the rights of the acused against
the risk to society. Will someone please explain to me
what threatening behavior LT has shown that deserves
s/he being banned before any consideration can be
given?
Mark
--- Daniel Mayer <maveric149(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
--- Anthere <anthere9(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
...
As I said above, I think the policy leaves room
for a group of sysops to
act temporarily, before the AC does.
Without comment on this particular block, I
completely agree with your above
general statement. I would in fact like to deputize
admins so that they have
more authority to do this sort of thing but would
have to implement such blocks
in triads (three admins would be needed to issue a
block; the ability for
single admins to block obvious vandals would not be
changed).
Is it good ?
*yes, because AC is acting slowly. Participants
are getting upset to see
reincarnations waiting for 2 months before
"judgment" by the AC. It is
no good that participants become angry.
I agree - The AC is a panel of judges who have the
authority to issue long term
bans. This is a large responsibility and contrary to
what many might think, it
is not fun at all. Thus cases move slowly. We are
not, nor have ever been a
police force and therefore cannot protect people
from the actions of others.
Our job is to judge those people and issue remedies
which we hope will be fair
to the accused and to the community. Admins are the
ones who implement those
rulings.
In real life, there is similar
provision.... when someone is said to have done
something deeply wrong
and is considered a potential threat to the
society, he may be put in
jail before the judgment is made. He should be
put
in jail only if there
is enough evidence naturally. But this prevents
damage to the society,
while giving time to judge fairly.
This concept in the U.S. at least is called
'probable cause'. It allows
policemen to detain suspects before trial and allows
individual judges to
extend that through trial based on incomplete
evidence. The goal is to balance
the rights of the accused with the right of the
public to not be harmed by
somebody who the police or the arraignment judge
reasonably thinks may do harm
if released. A full trial will determine guilt.
In fact I want the AC to change its arbitration
policy a bit to allow for
probable cause blocks of users during a trial based
on a simple quorum (4 votes
in favor). Such a user would only be able to edit
his/her user and user talk
page, and the AC pages concerning him/her. But that
only takes care of the
trial part. IMO, admins also need the ability to do
this during day to day
operations (the pre-trial part). Either way we need
to greatly increase the
size of the AC so that it can deal with the
workload.
If there is a mistake, we should deeply apology
to
the wrongly-blocked
person, and re-consider how we are looking for
evidence for next cases.
Not necessarily - if probable cause was in fact
valid to begin with then the
user was not wrongly blocked. But just as there is a
possibility for police
abuse, there is also the possibility of admin abuse.
If that is the case, then
the admin may be in a trial of his/her own. However,
we should assume good
faith of admins as much as possible - otherwise
everybody will be too afraid of
using their sysop power to do what needs to be done
for the good of the
community.
*yes, it is also good because power should be in
the hand of people
first. Those doing the daily work. This is the
wiki way.
I agree. The current set-up is rather top heavy with
the AC having most of the
authority and most of the admins feeling as if their
hands are tied. I would
like to spread some of the AC's authority around but
would like to proceed with
caution.
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
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