The general consensus appears to be the quickpolls do not appear to work in the case of violations of the three revert rule. Fair enough. So what do we do now? I would like admins to have the power to 24hour block someone who violates this rule, once they have received a warning. I personally can't see any situation where someone would have a legitimate reason to revert more than three times in a day.
Vandalism - protect the page.
Um what else? I can't think of anything. What does everyone else think?
Theresa
('''Cosmotheism''' is a form of [[classical
pantheism]] that
identifies [[God]] with the ''cosmos'', that is, with
the
[[universe]] as a unified whole.
==Overview==
Cosmotheism asserts that "all is within God and God is
within all".
It considers the nature of reality and of existence to
be mutable and
destined to co-evolve towards a complete universal
consciousness, or
godhood.
[[etymology|Etymologically]], ''cosmotheism'' differs
from 'pan-
theism' in that "pan" is [[Ancient Greek|Classical
Greek]]
for ''all'', while the Greek word ''cosmos'' means an
orderly and
harmonious universe. Cosmotheists take this as meaning
the divine is
immanent to reality and consciousness, an inseparable
part of an
orderly, harmonious, and whole universal system.
In its broadest sense, the word cosmotheism may be
considered simply
as being synonymous with ''[[pantheism]]'', although
not all modern
pantheists would accept Cosmotheism as a synonym for
their own
worldview due to the historical association of
Cosmotheism with a
political movement, [[white separatism]], which some
within the
pantheist community may find objectionable.
According to a Cosmotheist Web site dedicated to the
late Dr.
[[William Pierce|William L. Pierce]]:
:"''Cosmotheism is a religion which positively asserts
that there is
an internal purpose in life and in cosmos, and there
is an essential
unity, or consciousness that binds all living beings
and all of the
inorganic cosmos, as one.''"
:"''What is our true human identity is we are the
cosmos made self-
aware and self-conscious by evolution. ''"
:"''Our true human purpose is to know and to complete
ourselves as
conscious individuals and also as a self-aware species
and thereby to
co-evolve with the cosmos towards total and universal
awareness, and
towards the ever higher perfection of consciousness
and
being.''"[http://www.cosmotheism.net/]
Some claim [[Albert Einstein]] was a Cosmotheist,
[http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1982/JASA3-82Seeger.html],
along with
[[Carl Sagan]], [[Benedict Spinoza]] and other
historical
figures�although there is no quoted evidence of any of
these
three claiming to be "cosmotheist" as such, and all
could also be
said to be [[Pantheist]].
==Mordekhay Nesiyahu's cosmotheism==
In Israel, Cosmotheism was also described by
[[Mordekhay Nesiyahu]],
one of the foremost ideologists of the Israeli Labor
Movement and a
lecturer in its college Beit Berl in Israel.
In ''Cosmotheism � Israel, Zionism, Judaism and
Humanity
towards the 21st Century'', Nesiyahu proposed not to
just assume the
existence of God, being "prior to all that was
created," but to
consider God as only being a result of the development
of the
universe and the consciousness of all of humankind.
Divinity in this particular view is inherently a human
invention.
The development of the divine (or what the believer
would qualify as
being "the revelation of the Divine") was, in
Nesiyahu's opinion,
both the condition for a more exalted human
functioning and all that
bears the fruit that comes out of it.
In Nesiyahu's universalist re-imagining of a secular
divinity, the
universal celebration of Cosmotheism is the basis for
rebuilding the
Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, and is also a secular
ethnically Jewish
and a Zionist contribution to all of humankind.
==Dr. William L. Pierce's Cosmotheism==
===Origins===
In the United States, ''cosmotheism'' sometimes refers
to a religion
adopted in [[1978]] by [[National Alliance]] founder
and [[white
separatist]] the late Dr. [[William Pierce|William L.
Pierce]].
Pierce affirmed his cosmotheist belief in a speech
that he once gave
entitled "Our Cause":
:''"All we require is that you share with us a
commitment to the
simple, but great, truth which I have explained to you
here, that you
understand that you are a part of the whole, which is
the creator,
that you understand that your purpose, the purpose of
mankind and the
purpose of every other part of creation, is the
creator's purpose,
that this purpose is the never-ending ascent of the
path of creation,
the path of life symbolized by our life rune, that you
understand
that this path leads ever upward toward the creator's
self-
realization, and that the destiny of those who follow
this path is
godhood."''
Pierce's interpretation of cosmotheism
([http://baldur.libertyforum.net:8079/Our_Cause.txt])
was greatly
influenced by several disparate factors:
interpretations of [[George
Bernard Shaw]]'s play ''[[Man and Superman]]'';
strains of [[German
Romanticism]]; [[Charles Darwin|Darwinian]] concepts
of [[natural
selection]] and of survival of the fittest, mixed with
the related
early [[20th century]] [[eugenics|eugenic]] ideals;
and [[Ernst
Haeckel]]'s version of [[monism]].
===Religion, society, and race===
The foundation of Pierce's Cosmotheism was essentially
similar to
classical monistic pantheism � he recognized no
physical
difference or separation between human and divine,
between creator
and created � but with a few differences. <!-- most
notably his
idea of the "degree of consciousness of the whole,
within". --- This
means nothing. How is that different to classical
pantheism?
Explanation is needed. -->
Pierce described his form of Cosmotheism as being
based on "[t]he
idea of an evolutionary universe ... with an evolution
toward ever
higher and higher states of self-consciousness," and
his political
ideas were centered on racial purity and [[eugenics]]
as the means of
advancing the [[white race]] first towards a
superhuman state, and
then towards godhood. In his view, the white race
represented the
pinnacle of human evolution thus far and therefore
should be kept
genetically separate from all other races in order to
achieve its
destined perfection in Godhood.
Dr. Pierce believed in a hierarchical society
governed by what he
saw as the essential principles of nature, including
the survival of
the fittest. In his social schema, the best-adapted
genetic stock,
which he believed to be the [[white race]], should
remain separated
from other races; and within an all-white society, the
most fit
individuals should lead the rest. He thought that
extensive programs
of "racial cleansing" and of [[eugenics]], both in
Europe and in the
U.S., would be necessary to achieve this
socio-political program.
His [[National Alliance]] was to be the political
vanguard and the
spiritual priesthood of this program, which was
designed ultimately
to bring about a "White racial redemption". His
Cosmotheist Community
Church, which was to be the next step of this plan,
was set up in the
mid-1970s, alongside Pierce's other political projects
� the
National Alliance, National Vanguard Books, and the
weekly
broadcast ''American Dissident Voices'' � all from his
mountain
retreat headquarters in West Virginia.
===Critical assessments===
Pierce's views have been characterized as a version of
early
twentieth century racial anthropology, but driven by
spiritual, as
well as scientific, beliefs. This area of his belief
was likely
influenced by his early association with [[George
Lincoln
Rockwell]]'s [[American Nazi Party]]. Others have
noted the German
Romantic roots that Pierce's ideas shared with
[[Nazism]] and have
observed similarities between the two ideologies:
Pierce's plan for
white divinity was similar to [[Adolf Hitler]]'s
vision for
the ''[[Master race|Herrenvolk]]''; also, his attacks
against Jews
as "parasites" on white society, who would prevent the
white race
from reaching its destined godhood by replacing the
white elite with
their own kind, echoed previous Nazi descriptions of
Jewish traits
and character.
[http://www.natvan.com/who-rules-america/wra.pdf]
Other criticisms have been harsher if not as
factually-accurate; for
example, the [[Southern Poverty Law Center]] has
characterized
Pierce's Cosmotheism as "an unsuccessful tax dodge".
Followers of
Pierce's cosmotheism do call many of these
characterizations
erroneous, as can be seen from this part of the Dr.
Griffin interview
with Dr. Pierce below from "The Fame of a Dead Man's
Deeds":
Dr Pierce-"And then there was a big fight with the IRS
which I lost.
They said that we weren't a church. They were
obviously under
pressure to take away the tax exemption we had. The
IRS sent some
agents out here to check us out. I still have the
report they wrote.
It had things like the road out here was very rough
and not conducive
to people getting to the services, and that we didn't
have enough
chairs and where were people going to sit, and there
was no central
heating system and so there couldn't be services in
the winter� a
bunch of baloney."
Dr. Griffin-(The IRS revoked Pierce's church status
and the
revocation was upheld in court. Pierce thinks the IRS
was responding
to pressure applied on it by the Anti-Defamation
League of B'nai
B'rith. While the vast majority of people view the ADL
in a positive
light, as an opponent of bigotry and intolerance,
Pierce sees it as a
Jewish instrument of thought control and the
abridgment of freedoms.
He contends that the ADL seeks to harm or even destroy
anyone or
anything that gets in the way of the Jewish agenda for
this country,
which includes him and his organization.)
Dr. Griffin-"You think your racial views were the real
reason the IRS
got on your case?"
Dr. Pierce-"If I had been preaching a doctrine that
didn't irritate
the Jews they would have left us alone. There are all
kinds of snake-
handling cults and everything else up here in these
hills, and the
IRS lets them call themselves a church and doesn't
bother them. It is
no big drain on the federal budget, and the IRS stays
in good graces
generally by not bothering people more than it has to.
But in our
case they were determined to get us, and it was
strictly because of
what I was teaching on racial and Jewish matters."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
==Related articles==
*[[Classical pantheism]]
*[[Creativity Movement]]
*[[Eugenics]]
*[[List of Pantheists]]
*[[Pan-atheism]]
*[[Panentheism]]
*[[Pantheism]]
==Uncritical Reference for Nesinyahu's Cosmotheism==
*''Cosmotheism, Israel, Zionism, Judaism and Humanity
- towards the
21st Century'' by Mordecai Nesinyahu (Poetica - Tuvi
Sopher
Publishing, Tel Aviv.)
===[[Jewish]] or [[Marxist]] Critical References for
Dr. Pierce's
Cosmotheism===
*''Gods of the Blood: The Pagan Revival and White
Separatism'', by
Mattias Gardell[http://66.102.7.104/search?
q=cache:aDOMqBmbq40J:www.spunk.org/texts/pubs/llr/sp000382.txt+Mattias
+Gardell+and+Sweden+International&hl=en] (ISBN
0822330717)
*''The Turner Diaries and Cosmotheism: William
Pierce's Theology of
Revolution'', by Brad
Whitsel[http://66.102.7.104/search?
q=cache:r4e9cNal8AMJ:www.alphalink.com.au/~radnat/titles.html+Brad+Whi
tsel+Marxist&hl=en] published in ''Nova Religio''
Vol.1, No.2, April
1998.
==External links==
=== Mordekhay Nesiyahu's cosmotheism ===
*[http://members.tripod.com/~TheHOPE/mikt2.htm
Nesiyahu's
interpretation of Cosmotheism]
===Dr. William L. Pierce's Cosmotheism===
====[[Jewish]], [[Marxist]], [[Pan-atheist]], and
[[Fundamentalist]]
[[Christianity]] Criticisms====
*[http://www.alphalink.com.au/~radnat/usanazis/cosmotheism.html
''The
Turner Diaries and Cosmotheism: William Pierce's
Theology of
Revolution''] by Brad
Whitsel[http://66.102.7.104/search?
q=cache:r4e9cNal8AMJ:www.alphalink.com.au/~radnat/titles.html+Brad+Whi
tsel+Marxist&hl=en] (''Nova Religio'')
*''Gods of the Blood: The Pagan Revival and White
Separatism'', by
Mattias Gardell[http://66.102.7.104/search?
q=cache:aDOMqBmbq40J:www.spunk.org/texts/pubs/llr/sp000382.txt+Mattias
+Gardell+and+Sweden+International&hl=en] (ISBN
0822330717)
*[http://www.pantheist-
index.net/Distortions_Aberrations/Hugenholtz.html ''A
Blemish on the
Blossom: Pantheism and White-Supremacist Hate
Groups''] by Esther
Hugenholtz[http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:EqSl-
UZPAR8J:www.geocities.com/esther_hugenholtz/introduction.html+Esther+H
ugenholtz+(Pantheist+Index)+&hl=en] (''Pantheist
Index'')
*[http://www.encyclopedia4u.com/p/pseudo-pantheism.html]
Pseudo-
Pantheism by
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Naturyl]
(Encyclopedia4U)]
*[http://66.102.7.104/search?
q=cache:ZqR0uWfk_V4J:www.christianseparatist.org/briefs/sb1.03.html+Co
smotheism+and+Pastor&hl=en The Devil and its False
Faces] by
[http://www.christianseparatist.org/index.html]
====Cosmotheist Advocacy====
*[http://www.cosmotheism.net Cosmotheism site]
**[http://bks.ark11.net/dpm.htm A Tribute to the late
Dr. William L.
Pierce]
**[http://www.cosmotheism.net/thepath.shtml The Path],
by Dr. William
L. Pierce
**[http://www.cosmotheism.net/onlivingthings.shtml On
Living Things],
by Dr. William L. Pierce
**[http://www.cosmotheism.net/onsociety.shtml On
Society] by Dr.
William L. Pierce
**[http://www.cosmotheism.net/affirmations.shtml An
example of a
Cosmotheist affirmation of belief]
*[http://forums.originaldissent.com/showthread.php?t=12548
Interview
with Dr. William L. Pierce on Cosmotheism] (from ''The
Fame of a Dead
Man's Deeds'' by Dr. Robert Griffin)
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
('''Cosmotheism''' is a form of [[classical
pantheism]] that
identifies [[God]] with the ''cosmos'', that is, with
the
[[universe]] as a unified whole.
==Overview==
Cosmotheism asserts that "all is within God and God is
within all".
It considers the nature of reality and of existence to
be mutable and
destined to co-evolve towards a complete universal
consciousness, or
godhood.
[[etymology|Etymologically]], ''cosmotheism'' differs
from 'pan-
theism' in that "pan" is [[Ancient Greek|Classical
Greek]]
for ''all'', while the Greek word ''cosmos'' means an
orderly and
harmonious universe. Cosmotheists take this as meaning
the divine is
immanent to reality and consciousness, an inseparable
part of an
orderly, harmonious, and whole universal system.
In its broadest sense, the word cosmotheism may be
considered simply
as being synonymous with ''[[pantheism]]'', although
not all modern
pantheists would accept Cosmotheism as a synonym for
their own
worldview due to the historical association of
Cosmotheism with a
political movement, [[white separatism]], which some
within the
pantheist community may find objectionable.
According to a Cosmotheist Web site dedicated to the
late Dr.
[[William Pierce|William L. Pierce]]:
:"''Cosmotheism is a religion which positively asserts
that there is
an internal purpose in life and in cosmos, and there
is an essential
unity, or consciousness that binds all living beings
and all of the
inorganic cosmos, as one.''"
:"''What is our true human identity is we are the
cosmos made self-
aware and self-conscious by evolution. ''"
:"''Our true human purpose is to know and to complete
ourselves as
conscious individuals and also as a self-aware species
and thereby to
co-evolve with the cosmos towards total and universal
awareness, and
towards the ever higher perfection of consciousness
and
being.''"[http://www.cosmotheism.net/]
Some claim [[Albert Einstein]] was a Cosmotheist,
[http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1982/JASA3-82Seeger.html],
along with
[[Carl Sagan]], [[Benedict Spinoza]] and other
historical
figures�although there is no quoted evidence of any of
these
three claiming to be "cosmotheist" as such, and all
could also be
said to be [[Pantheist]].
==Mordekhay Nesiyahu's cosmotheism==
In Israel, Cosmotheism was also described by
[[Mordekhay Nesiyahu]],
one of the foremost ideologists of the Israeli Labor
Movement and a
lecturer in its college Beit Berl in Israel.
In ''Cosmotheism � Israel, Zionism, Judaism and
Humanity
towards the 21st Century'', Nesiyahu proposed not to
just assume the
existence of God, being "prior to all that was
created," but to
consider God as only being a result of the development
of the
universe and the consciousness of all of humankind.
Divinity in this particular view is inherently a human
invention.
The development of the divine (or what the believer
would qualify as
being "the revelation of the Divine") was, in
Nesiyahu's opinion,
both the condition for a more exalted human
functioning and all that
bears the fruit that comes out of it.
In Nesiyahu's universalist re-imagining of a secular
divinity, the
universal celebration of Cosmotheism is the basis for
rebuilding the
Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, and is also a secular
ethnically Jewish
and a Zionist contribution to all of humankind.
==Dr. William L. Pierce's Cosmotheism==
===Origins===
In the United States, ''cosmotheism'' sometimes refers
to a religion
adopted in [[1978]] by [[National Alliance]] founder
and [[white
separatist]] the late Dr. [[William Pierce|William L.
Pierce]].
Pierce affirmed his cosmotheist belief in a speech
that he once gave
entitled "Our Cause":
:''"All we require is that you share with us a
commitment to the
simple, but great, truth which I have explained to you
here, that you
understand that you are a part of the whole, which is
the creator,
that you understand that your purpose, the purpose of
mankind and the
purpose of every other part of creation, is the
creator's purpose,
that this purpose is the never-ending ascent of the
path of creation,
the path of life symbolized by our life rune, that you
understand
that this path leads ever upward toward the creator's
self-
realization, and that the destiny of those who follow
this path is
godhood."''
Pierce's interpretation of cosmotheism
([http://baldur.libertyforum.net:8079/Our_Cause.txt])
was greatly
influenced by several disparate factors:
interpretations of [[George
Bernard Shaw]]'s play ''[[Man and Superman]]'';
strains of [[German
Romanticism]]; [[Charles Darwin|Darwinian]] concepts
of [[natural
selection]] and of survival of the fittest, mixed with
the related
early [[20th century]] [[eugenics|eugenic]] ideals;
and [[Ernst
Haeckel]]'s version of [[monism]].
===Religion, society, and race===
The foundation of Pierce's Cosmotheism was essentially
similar to
classical monistic pantheism � he recognized no
physical
difference or separation between human and divine,
between creator
and created � but with a few differences. <!-- most
notably his
idea of the "degree of consciousness of the whole,
within". --- This
means nothing. How is that different to classical
pantheism?
Explanation is needed. -->
Pierce described his form of Cosmotheism as being
based on "[t]he
idea of an evolutionary universe ... with an evolution
toward ever
higher and higher states of self-consciousness," and
his political
ideas were centered on racial purity and [[eugenics]]
as the means of
advancing the [[white race]] first towards a
superhuman state, and
then towards godhood. In his view, the white race
represented the
pinnacle of human evolution thus far and therefore
should be kept
genetically separate from all other races in order to
achieve its
destined perfection in Godhood.
Dr. Pierce believed in a hierarchical society
governed by what he
saw as the essential principles of nature, including
the survival of
the fittest. In his social schema, the best-adapted
genetic stock,
which he believed to be the [[white race]], should
remain separated
from other races; and within an all-white society, the
most fit
individuals should lead the rest. He thought that
extensive programs
of "racial cleansing" and of [[eugenics]], both in
Europe and in the
U.S., would be necessary to achieve this
socio-political program.
His [[National Alliance]] was to be the political
vanguard and the
spiritual priesthood of this program, which was
designed ultimately
to bring about a "White racial redemption". His
Cosmotheist Community
Church, which was to be the next step of this plan,
was set up in the
mid-1970s, alongside Pierce's other political projects
� the
National Alliance, National Vanguard Books, and the
weekly
broadcast ''American Dissident Voices'' � all from his
mountain
retreat headquarters in West Virginia.
===Critical assessments===
Pierce's views have been characterized as a version of
early
twentieth century racial anthropology, but driven by
spiritual, as
well as scientific, beliefs. This area of his belief
was likely
influenced by his early association with [[George
Lincoln
Rockwell]]'s [[American Nazi Party]]. Others have
noted the German
Romantic roots that Pierce's ideas shared with
[[Nazism]] and have
observed similarities between the two ideologies:
Pierce's plan for
white divinity was similar to [[Adolf Hitler]]'s
vision for
the ''[[Master race|Herrenvolk]]''; also, his attacks
against Jews
as "parasites" on white society, who would prevent the
white race
from reaching its destined godhood by replacing the
white elite with
their own kind, echoed previous Nazi descriptions of
Jewish traits
and character.
[http://www.natvan.com/who-rules-america/wra.pdf]
Other criticisms have been harsher if not as
factually-accurate; for
example, the [[Southern Poverty Law Center]] has
characterized
Pierce's Cosmotheism as "an unsuccessful tax dodge".
Followers of
Pierce's cosmotheism do call many of these
characterizations
erroneous, as can be seen from this part of the Dr.
Griffin interview
with Dr. Pierce below from "The Fame of a Dead Man's
Deeds":
Dr Pierce-"And then there was a big fight with the IRS
which I lost.
They said that we weren't a church. They were
obviously under
pressure to take away the tax exemption we had. The
IRS sent some
agents out here to check us out. I still have the
report they wrote.
It had things like the road out here was very rough
and not conducive
to people getting to the services, and that we didn't
have enough
chairs and where were people going to sit, and there
was no central
heating system and so there couldn't be services in
the winter� a
bunch of baloney."
Dr. Griffin-(The IRS revoked Pierce's church status
and the
revocation was upheld in court. Pierce thinks the IRS
was responding
to pressure applied on it by the Anti-Defamation
League of B'nai
B'rith. While the vast majority of people view the ADL
in a positive
light, as an opponent of bigotry and intolerance,
Pierce sees it as a
Jewish instrument of thought control and the
abridgment of freedoms.
He contends that the ADL seeks to harm or even destroy
anyone or
anything that gets in the way of the Jewish agenda for
this country,
which includes him and his organization.)
Dr. Griffin-"You think your racial views were the real
reason the IRS
got on your case?"
Dr. Pierce-"If I had been preaching a doctrine that
didn't irritate
the Jews they would have left us alone. There are all
kinds of snake-
handling cults and everything else up here in these
hills, and the
IRS lets them call themselves a church and doesn't
bother them. It is
no big drain on the federal budget, and the IRS stays
in good graces
generally by not bothering people more than it has to.
But in our
case they were determined to get us, and it was
strictly because of
what I was teaching on racial and Jewish matters."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
==Related articles==
*[[Classical pantheism]]
*[[Creativity Movement]]
*[[Eugenics]]
*[[List of Pantheists]]
*[[Pan-atheism]]
*[[Panentheism]]
*[[Pantheism]]
==Uncritical Reference for Nesinyahu's Cosmotheism==
*''Cosmotheism, Israel, Zionism, Judaism and Humanity
- towards the
21st Century'' by Mordecai Nesinyahu (Poetica - Tuvi
Sopher
Publishing, Tel Aviv.)
===[[Jewish]] or [[Marxist]] Critical References for
Dr. Pierce's
Cosmotheism===
*''Gods of the Blood: The Pagan Revival and White
Separatism'', by
Mattias Gardell[http://66.102.7.104/search?
q=cache:aDOMqBmbq40J:www.spunk.org/texts/pubs/llr/sp000382.txt+Mattias
+Gardell+and+Sweden+International&hl=en] (ISBN
0822330717)
*''The Turner Diaries and Cosmotheism: William
Pierce's Theology of
Revolution'', by Brad
Whitsel[http://66.102.7.104/search?
q=cache:r4e9cNal8AMJ:www.alphalink.com.au/~radnat/titles.html+Brad+Whi
tsel+Marxist&hl=en] published in ''Nova Religio''
Vol.1, No.2, April
1998.
==External links==
=== Mordekhay Nesiyahu's cosmotheism ===
*[http://members.tripod.com/~TheHOPE/mikt2.htm
Nesiyahu's
interpretation of Cosmotheism]
===Dr. William L. Pierce's Cosmotheism===
====[[Jewish]], [[Marxist]], [[Pan-atheist]], and
[[Fundamentalist]]
[[Christianity]] Criticisms====
*[http://www.alphalink.com.au/~radnat/usanazis/cosmotheism.html
''The
Turner Diaries and Cosmotheism: William Pierce's
Theology of
Revolution''] by Brad
Whitsel[http://66.102.7.104/search?
q=cache:r4e9cNal8AMJ:www.alphalink.com.au/~radnat/titles.html+Brad+Whi
tsel+Marxist&hl=en] (''Nova Religio'')
*''Gods of the Blood: The Pagan Revival and White
Separatism'', by
Mattias Gardell[http://66.102.7.104/search?
q=cache:aDOMqBmbq40J:www.spunk.org/texts/pubs/llr/sp000382.txt+Mattias
+Gardell+and+Sweden+International&hl=en] (ISBN
0822330717)
*[http://www.pantheist-
index.net/Distortions_Aberrations/Hugenholtz.html ''A
Blemish on the
Blossom: Pantheism and White-Supremacist Hate
Groups''] by Esther
Hugenholtz[http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:EqSl-
UZPAR8J:www.geocities.com/esther_hugenholtz/introduction.html+Esther+H
ugenholtz+(Pantheist+Index)+&hl=en] (''Pantheist
Index'')
*[http://www.encyclopedia4u.com/p/pseudo-pantheism.html]
Pseudo-
Pantheism by
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Naturyl]
(Encyclopedia4U)]
*[http://66.102.7.104/search?
q=cache:ZqR0uWfk_V4J:www.christianseparatist.org/briefs/sb1.03.html+Co
smotheism+and+Pastor&hl=en The Devil and its False
Faces] by
[http://www.christianseparatist.org/index.html]
====Cosmotheist Advocacy====
*[http://www.cosmotheism.net Cosmotheism site]
**[http://bks.ark11.net/dpm.htm A Tribute to the late
Dr. William L.
Pierce]
**[http://www.cosmotheism.net/thepath.shtml The Path],
by Dr. William
L. Pierce
**[http://www.cosmotheism.net/onlivingthings.shtml On
Living Things],
by Dr. William L. Pierce
**[http://www.cosmotheism.net/onsociety.shtml On
Society] by Dr.
William L. Pierce
**[http://www.cosmotheism.net/affirmations.shtml An
example of a
Cosmotheist affirmation of belief]
*[http://forums.originaldissent.com/showthread.php?t=12548
Interview
with Dr. William L. Pierce on Cosmotheism] (from ''The
Fame of a Dead
Man's Deeds'' by Dr. Robert Griffin)
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
It's a bit of an oversimplification. If I wanted to troll, I'd make a
controversial edit. When it was reverted I'd troll on the talk page. Get
no bites - make another controversial edit and troll on the talk page
again. Get no bites again? Troll quickpolls, village pump, review of
admin actions etc, complaining that I was being reverted without
discussion.
How do you deal with users like a troll version of me?
Theresa
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Richards [mailto:marich712000@yahoo.com]
Sent: 06 May 2004 16:25
To: English Wikipedia
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] On trolls, usenet and Wikipedia
Hang on a second, I thought vandals were easy to deal
with? Revert, ban if necessary, done. The problem is
users who have not vandalised anything, but seek to
engage in endlessly convoluted arguments with anyone
who will play. Unfortunately, if you play, you have
lost already.
If the troll vandalises, ban him immediately. If not,
don't feed him.
Mark
--- Christopher Mahan <chris_mahan(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Usenet or any of many online forums, trolls can
> be ignored (not
> fed) and they mostly disappear. On wikipedia, they
> escalate their
> vandalism, learning ever-sneakier ways of damaging
> articles that
> people have spend countless hours of their precious
> time crafting.
>
> Ignoring a troll on wikipedia is the worst thing you
> could possibly
> do, since it will bite you in the proverbial bum.
>
> =====
> Christopher Mahan
> chris_mahan(a)yahoo.com
> 818.943.1850 cell
> http://www.christophermahan.com/
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
For the second day running, mid-morning GMT, there have been numerous
articles posted by what appears to be a group of students at a Spanish
university, acting in concert in a project to boost WP's pages on machine
translation and allied topics.
I mention this not because there is an actual crisis - various alerts have
been raised, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:VfD-Translation_articles - but
because of the somewhat alarming feeling while it's on, of a whole group of
newbies loose and working in collaboration, and not communicating in
English. Much of the work is wasted, because there are existing articles
under almost identical titles. Much of the text is copied from somewhere,
posing a problem of scale looking at possible copyvio. Some even seems to
be WP material being copied back here from another site using it.
On the whole I think the Wikipedians involved have handled this rather
professionally - taking a pro-active line in looking at what is going on,
rather than a reactive assumption that this is malicious in some way. There
is going to be quite a job tidying it all up, later, if every such
contribution is treated (as it should be) on a case-by-case basis.
Charles
http://www.speakingasaparent.com/
I, for one, appreciate the gesture.
What I would really like is for him to come here and join in the
policy discussions. There seems to be an emerging consensus here for
a faster process for dealing with some of the problems that he seems
to care a lot about, and his refusal to join the policy discussions is
unfortunate, because he may have useful thoughts to offer.
daniwo59(a)aol.com wrote:
> As a gesture of goodwill, Wik has removed the lists from his page that people
> found offensive. I hope that the other side in this dispute will reciprocate
> in some way.
>
> I also hope that we will begin to address some of the issues Wik has raised.
>
> Danny
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Many of the issues Wik could potentially raise could be handled by following
the established dispute resolution process, the first step of which is to
communicate with other users, a tedious process, but one I find much more
pleasant than just butting heads with them. As it looks now the arbitration
decree will tend toward forcing him to follow that process rather then
singlehandedly keeping thousands of articles in the shape he feels is
"right".
Fred
From: daniwo59(a)aol.com
Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org>
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 07:42:48 EDT
To: wikiEN-l(a)wikipedia.org
Subject: [WikiEN-l] Wik has removed the lists (short)
As a gesture of goodwill, Wik has removed the lists from his page that
people found offensive. I hope that the other side in this dispute will
reciprocate in some way.
I also hope that we will begin to address some of the issues Wik has raised.
Danny
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
In a message dated 5/6/2004 1:04:49 AM Eastern Standard Time,
charles.r.matthews(a)ntlworld.com writes:
would find it easier to believe that Wik and I are on the same side, if I
could edit down the bloated [[1920 in Germany]] page without reverts from
him and 172,
So teh problem with Wik is that he is long winded?
Martin wrote:
>
> 172 and Danny in particular. To a perhaps lesser extent, Baldhur,
> Meelar, Dissident,
> RickK, Secretlondon, Sam Spade.
>
I cannot speak for others, but I am anything but a Wik supporter. I just
said on that page that I mostly agree with him factually, but I really
hate his way of dealing with other people. I demanded a ban on Wik long
ago. Of course I would prefer if he changes his ways but that will never
happen. If he is able to chase away a brilliant editor like Tannin (and
many others) then he shall leave.
I don't know how it comes that I am called a Wik supporter now. Is it just
because Jor characterised me so on his user page (among his list of insane
users)?
Mirko (aka Baldhur)
Hello,
Jimbo has asked who supports Wik. Well, I do, for one. I would like to
explain.
As I see it, Wik is not a problem with Wikipedia but, rather, a symptom of a
much larger problem. In many ways, JHK, Zoe, Kosebamse, Tannin, and quite a
few others were different symptoms of the same problem. That is because the real
problem is the proliferation of users, some well-known, and some rather new,
who have forgotten the most basic principle of Wikipedia: we are out to build
an encyclopedia. Period. We are out to collect and organize the sum of human
knowledge and present it in a manageable, readable format that could be of help
to anyone. And we invite everyone to participate in this process, because we
believe that it will benefit everyone. Yes, it is intellectually titillating,
exciting, challenging, and fun. Those are side benefits of the essential value
of the pursuit and dissemination of knowledge.
There are, however, people who do not share in our objectives. Because we are
an open source (I hope I am using the term correctly), there are people who
get their rocks off adding "Danny is a fag" or "Fuck you" into articles, or
perhaps erasing texts, and engaging in other kinds of vandalism. They are
annoying--sometimes even very annoying--but so are mosquitoes. While I think we need
a better infrastructure to deal with these kinds of "users," I also believe
that we are pretty effective cleaning up after them.
Then there are other kinds of users: users who come to Wikipedia with strong
opinions one some subject or another, who insert these opinions into articles.
The fact of the matter is, most of us have strong opinions, but we are more
cautious (or perhaps, more sophisticated) when it comes to introducing them to
Wikipedia. I have no doubt that these people believe strongly in their
opinions, but I think we all agree that this is not the place for them to advocate on
their behalf. That is why we have the NPOV policy. For instance, I am
convinced that many Wikipedians would like to rewrite the George W. Bush or Bill
Clinton (or Thatcher, or Sharon, or Arafat, or Evolution, or Homosexuality or any
other contentious topic) articles so that they better reflect their personal
politics, but they don't. Some people do, and frankly, they can be a stubborn
lot--and I am assuming good faith, nonetheless.
Essentially, it is these users who are behind most of our edit wars. There
can be several reasons for this: 1) they do not understand our NPOV policy; 2)
they choose to ignore our NPOV policy; 3) they feel like adding their positions
makes for more accurate NPOV. Personally, I have issue with the latter
position, but this is not the place to discuss that. The problem is, that whatever
their reason, this results in virulent edit wars, which tend to disrupt the
community.
We are remarkably tolerant of these people--our bylaws were, in many cases,
created with the assumption that they can reform--but unfortunately these users
do tend to disrupt our community. Many users spend an inordinate amount of
time cleaning up after them or just getting into polemical arguments on talk
pages with them. When it gets particularly heated, some users who sincerely care
about the quality of the project leave in disgust (this was the case with JHK,
for instance).
Wik is a valuable Wikipedian too. One only need look at his other, extensive,
non-controversial edits to see that. The problem is that Wik also represents
another option to trolls and vandalism: fighting back. Out of what seems like
over-zealous quality control, he reverts them and does not waste his time in
what he perceives as futile dialogue. By the way, my personal feeling is that
if anyone here thinks that they will convince a biased POV pusher of their
position on a talk page, they are severely deluded as to their persuasive
skills--in almost all cases, it is simply an exercise in rhetoric.
There is a flaw in Wik's style: his methods tend to provoke rather than get
rid of those trolls and vandals (yes, the vandals, too, are drawn to the
confrontation). On the other hand, it is one way of dealing with a severe problem of
trolling and vandalism that will only grow in intensity if it is not nipped
in the bud. Leaving Wikipedia does not help resolve the problem. Banning
someone for fighting back does not help resolve the problem either. In both cases,
it just leaves the problem to fester, so that we see more and more established
and valuable users getting frustrated. I quote Jimbo here:
"I should point out, not in support of Wik, but just by way of comment, that
the great irony about Wik is that he's sort of an anti-troll troll. He
claims, and I have little reason to doubt his sincerity of belief, that his annoying
actions are just proper responses to various troublemakers on the site"
I believe that in the case of Wik, people are pointing the finger at him,
rather than seeing what it is he is reverting (and yes, he has come under attack
by respected users, which only exacerbates his own feeling of isolation and
frustration). He is here to help build an encyclopedia, and as he seems to see
it, he is being thwarted.
One last thing. I do not condone the lists of users on Wik's page. In fact,
they trouble me. If he is reading this, or if someone can send this to him, I
ask him to remove the lists as a gesture of good faith. Then, hopefully, we can
all work together to improve the quality and quality control of Wikipedia.
Danny