I will also share these in the team meeting and
then we can discuss the
conclusion and I will post a PDF on Mediawiki.
Thanks
Vibha
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Vibha Bamba <vbamba(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:
I have two prototypes to share that will help
solve this problem that I
can share on monday at my desk.
On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Benny Situ <bsitu(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:
> I did not go through every thread in this conversation, what problem
> is 'clear/go away' trying to solve? Is it because the notification topic
> is not interesting to the user or is it because it disturbs the user view
> in the flyout? 'clearing' existing ones doesn't prevent new ones from
> coming in. Or is it just because we want to provide more UI control to end
> users?
>
> I receive emails from amazon regularly and I would view them
> occasionally to see what's on sale , I would never check/delete them
> because I know that new emails will push them out of the first page. If I
> am getting sick of receiving such email I would just unsubscribe. I am not
> sure about implementing such function, I think it totally depends on
> personal preference ( in such case, majority rules, :) ).
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Luke Welling WMF <
> lwelling(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
>> I generally like the feature in its current form.
>>
>> It's not exactly how I'd have specified it. I think consistency in
>> UX is vital so if it were just up to me, I would not have different
>> handling for talk and system notifications. But that's a relatively minor
>> issue.
>>
>> The big question I'd ask now is "Is there a realistic chance that
>> we'll add fine grained control in V1.1?"
>>
>> If there is, then type based disabling is dangerous. It limits what
>> we can turn on later. For example, if somebody has turned off all page link
>> notifications because they were getting dozens for a single uninteresting
>> page they created, and we later add per page disabling of that type, we
>> can't reasonably turn it back on for that user. Undoing their manual
>> preference settings would be obnoxious. We've lost them from that feature
>> forever even if we improve it.
>>
>> Luke
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Vibha Bamba <vbamba(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:
>>
>>> Ryan, can you request you to comment on tech feasibility analysis
>>> for 2 things:
>>>
>>> -A simple 'Go away/Remove this notification'
>>> -And a 'Clear All' for visible notifications in the flyout?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Oliver Keyes
<okeyes(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's an argument for 'they might not find the feature as
useful'.
>>>> Will they be directly inconvenienced by the feature? Not that I can see.
>>>> But since we're in agreement that, well, we're not in agreement,
it's
>>>> probably worth mooting this conversation until there comes a time when
we
>>>> have more evidence on how things work in practise, or other people want
to
>>>> take up the baton.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 27 March 2013 20:23, Vibha Bamba <vbamba(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Right. So I agree we need solutions that will work across a
>>>>> spectrum of engagement levels.
>>>>> But turning categories off also doesn't work for new users,
*their
>>>>> volume and velocity of notifications* is much smaller than the
>>>>> power user.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Oliver Keyes <
>>>>> okeyes(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am certainly talking about the power user; my point is that we
>>>>>> *do* have use cases here :). I strongly agree that new users are
>>>>>> unlikely to create a volume of edits or articles in a single go,
but given
>>>>>> that our job with EE is to turn them *into* power users, and
>>>>>> being able to create mechanisms to do this requires some kind of
community
>>>>>> acceptance, it seems illogical to make product decisions based on
the
>>>>>> short-term. I'm happy to wait until we have *more* evidence,
and
>>>>>> other people are convinced this might be worth looking into, but
"I think
>>>>>> you may be talking about the power user here" is never a
valid argument for
>>>>>> a feature that hits non-newcomers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 27 March 2013 20:02, Vibha Bamba <vbamba(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oliver, I think you may be talking about the power user
here:
>>>>>>> New users are unlikely to create a volume of edits or
articles
>>>>>>> in a single go.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Certain categories *cannot *be switched off:
>>>>>>> -Systme Messages
>>>>>>> -Talk Page messages
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You bring up a very valid case, but I doubt that the solution
is
>>>>>>> turning entire categories off from the flyout.
>>>>>>> If it is spam for power users, they can turn things off in
>>>>>>> Preferences.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Facebook provides a very sophisticated level of control in
the
>>>>>>> flyouts by letting you mute :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Notification from User X (*Not* all talk messages)
>>>>>>> -Notifications about Event X (*Not* all events)
>>>>>>> -Notifications from X wall Post (Not all your wall posts,
just
>>>>>>> this specific one)
>>>>>>> -Notifications from the status you posted (Not your entire
wall)
>>>>>>> -Notifications for a language from a service (Not even the
>>>>>>> entire app in all cases)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is the level of control we may need for some
categories,
>>>>>>> but it needs more thinking,
>>>>>>> I dont think we are there yet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Oliver Keyes <
>>>>>>> okeyes(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As someone who has spent time directly observing user
behaviour
>>>>>>>> for many years - we have lots and lots of evidence. For
example; are you
>>>>>>>> aware that users semi-automatically and/or rapidly create
articles? Usually
>>>>>>>> translated from other projects. I sincerely doubt that
they will want a
>>>>>>>> notification every time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 27 March 2013 19:32, Vibha Bamba
<vbamba(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To clarify:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1) The safest thing that allows to build
incrementally for now
>>>>>>>>> is 'Ive read this > Remove it' which is a
really a simple *'Go
>>>>>>>>> Away'*
>>>>>>>>> 2 ) In addition to this we could support a*
'Clear All Read'*from the flyout so a user doesn't have to dismiss one at a
time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This still leaves us with the problem of cross
linking
>>>>>>>>> notification which may be large in volume > we
could make that an
>>>>>>>>> *'Opt In'*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The reason I think turning off categories in the
flyout is
>>>>>>>>> problematic is:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Dismissing entire categories needs more fine
tuning.
>>>>>>>>> Users will want to unfollow specific things >
Articles > Discussions etc.
>>>>>>>>> 2. Switching off categories also prevents us from
>>>>>>>>> incremental fine tune controls in the short term.
>>>>>>>>> 3. Other than cross links, so far we dont have
enough
>>>>>>>>> evidence that users will want to switch entire
categories off. We need more
>>>>>>>>> time and back end support to figure that out.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Vibha Bamba <
>>>>>>>>> vbamba(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I propose:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1) The safest thing that allows to build
incrementally for
>>>>>>>>>> now is 'Ive read this > Remove it'
>>>>>>>>>> 2 ) In addition to this we could support a clear
all new from
>>>>>>>>>> the flyout so a user doesn't have to dismiss
one at a time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This still leaves us with the problem of cross
linking
>>>>>>>>>> notification which may be large in volume > we
could make that an 'opt in'
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dismissing entire categories needs more fine
tuning.
>>>>>>>>>> Other than cross links, so far we dont have
enough evidence
>>>>>>>>>> that users will want to switch entire categories
off.
>>>>>>>>>> Users will want to unfollow specific things >
Articles >
>>>>>>>>>> Discussions etc.
>>>>>>>>>> We need more time and back end support to figure
that out.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Isarra Yos
<
>>>>>>>>>> zhorishna(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But having the option there at all, if its to
be removed
>>>>>>>>>>> later for simplicity, could even cause
problems - how quickly would users
>>>>>>>>>>> figure out that they dont want a kind of
message? On the first one, it
>>>>>>>>>>> probably wont seem worth dismissing all of
the type - might be interesting
>>>>>>>>>>> to get more. But once they get twenty in the
next day, then it would
>>>>>>>>>>> probably sink in that okay, this is really
annoying. But where did the
>>>>>>>>>>> option go? Wasnt there an option?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If anything it might lead them away from
their preferences
>>>>>>>>>>> because their preferences are not where they
saw the option initially.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 27/03/2013 13:11, Matthew Flaschen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/27/2013 03:09 PM, Isarra Yos
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps Im misunderstanding
something, but if someone is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dismiss several, they wont want a
dialog showing up every
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time, but at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same time even if they dont want
to disable all of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> type the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> first time that doesnt mean they wont
want to do that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> later. The option,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> if its going to be there, needs to be
there somewhat
>>>>>>>>>>>>> consistently.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You can still disable the notification
category in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Special:Preferences .
>>>>>>>>>>>> It may be worthwhile to keep the main
Echo interface (not
>>>>>>>>>>>> preferences)
>>>>>>>>>>>> simpler if they choose not to disable the
category the
>>>>>>>>>>>> first time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt Flaschen
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> EE mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> EE(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> -— Isarra
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>>>> EE mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> EE(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Oliver Keyes
>>>>>>>> Community Liaison, Product Development
>>>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Oliver Keyes
>>>>>> Community Liaison, Product Development
>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Oliver Keyes
>>>> Community Liaison, Product Development
>>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>>
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