--- Erik Moeller <erik_moeller(a)gmx.de> wrote:
Anthere-
Look, we both agree that the current English logo
sucks, OK?
I would not have been so...:-)
So basing an
argument against a largely similar logo among all
Wikipedias on the
current logo is really not very fair. I have not
voiced any objections to
the French Wikipedia coming up with their own logo
because it is
reasonable for you to choose a French logo over an
English one, but I
would have preferred it if you had made an effort to
push for a new,
international logo instead.
Just a word there
I wonder if the "you" is general, or if it is "me".
If me, I will just indicate here that the logo was
changed less than a month after I got under my name on
the fr wiki. It was not discussed. We were few at that
time, so one editor just designed a logo, and send it
to Jason to have it placed. He then raised an uproar
becaues Jason hesitated to immediately place it,
without Jimbo aggrement.
As far as I remember, this lead to
1) noise on the international list
2) one of my first mail to the mailing list to try to
explain where that change came from (I was also
wondering, I found it
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/intlwiki-l/2002-June/000459.html)
3) a lot of noise afterward on the french wiki,
because that had been done without discussion before
hand
Afterhand, we decided to keep it :-) Two times, there
were some discussions to change it, with no result.
Several of us also participated on meta for the choice
of a mascott. From time to time, some people try to
raise the topic of changing the name for a more
french-sound.
I think your comment "I would have preferred it if you
had made an effort to push for a new, international
logo instead." is quite strange. Very strange.
when we made the change, there was *no* (I insist on
the no) communication between the french and the
english wikipedias. We were about 10 while you already
were hundred. We had about 600 pages. We were still
phase I. We were unwelcome on meta. We had no mailing
list. The wikipedia-l was for english matters only. I
think the only traveller with me was Youssef. There
was no place to discuss *anything* in common.
Which is why my first two participations on an english
mailing list was to try to explain to Jimbo the matter
of the logo, and to try to explain what could have
lead the spanish to fork.
I think the third was to call for help because we had
*no* sysop, and thus no one had any power against
vandals and no one could do house keeping.
And the fourth was to complain there had been an
unilateral decision on putting red underlined links
default, with no international being ask their
opinion. At that time, it was agreed we could have the
question marks as preference. It was never done.
Anyway, at that time, we were not even internationals.
We were basically nothing.
Consequently, I find your comment quite out of context
Erik. Now is different (I think in part of all the
noise I made :-)). But back then, the idea of french
wikipedians suggesting the english to change their
logo is totally...
As for changing the default skin, the only wiki that
has done so, so far,
is the Esperanto wiki, and this was done by Brion
without much (any?)
discussion. We currently have no policy on this, and
there are only two
ways to set up such a policy within our current
system:
- decision by Jimbo Wales
- authorization of a vote by Jimbo Wales
- consensus among all Wikipedians, including Jimbo
Wales (not gonna
happen)
lol. Perhaps not.
Since Wikipedia is not a dictatorship where
everything that is not
expressly allowed is forbidden, in the absence of a
policy, it would be OK
for any of the existing wikis to change its default
skin. It would be
courteous and wise to wait for a word from Jimbo
before doing so.
quite true.
But we can discuss it :-)
There is another effect: When I first visited the
Esperanto Wikipedia out
of curiosity, I didn't know about CB yet and
initially wondered whether
this was still part of the same project -- there was
no logo, the site was
called "Vikipedio", and it looked entirely
different. Many other visitors
have reported the same experience on the Village
Pump and elsewhere. This
kind of reaction goes against anything that a common
project with a common
name stands for. It deteriorates the Wikipedia brand
and common identity.
Agreed. Having a the same time not the same skin, not
the same logo, and not the same name...is certainly a
pb
as long as
*all* skins are available to *all*
wikipedias, I see not why we would make one
wikipedia
unhappy
Who will be unhappy? Are we really talking about
strong tendencies within
the Wikipedias, or only about single individuals who
are very vocal?
Well, we can't know this for sure without a poll...
what about setting a poll system ?
Is
there such a thing as a "cultural
preference" for a
certain skin? The
numbers certainly do not indicate this. The
following percentages of users
have changed their skin from the default to "Cologne
Blue":
German: 19.4%
English: 8.58%
French: 11.8%
Polish: 12%
Chinese: 9.18%
Dutch: 7.42%
Swedish: 7.55%
very interesting numbers !
perhaps biased for a lack of choice though
I conclude that the
different cultures are
reasonably similar for us to set an international
default, and that it is
only a vocal minority that opposes such a step.
I think the numbers would not be so obvious with one
or two good skins. Perhaps you go to quickly to the
conclusion. Let's wait Tarquin proposition :-)
Regards,
Erik
Best Erik
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