Le 6 avr. 05, à 14:06, Anthere a écrit :
--- "jacques.divol" <jacques.divol(a)laposte.net> wrote:
Le 6 avr. 05, à 09:58, Anthere a écrit :
--- "jacques.divol" <jacques.divol(a)laposte.net>
wrote:
> i'll try to check and untie the knots, its ....
> weird the way people
> had act on the matter wikipedia vs wikinews.
>
>
> Many french feel very upsets of being forced to
> accept wikinews from
> 'foreigners', with rules and ways of making the
> stuff not very
> familliars to them. (it's their feeling)
>
> Sad.
>
> but I understand very well their point of view on
> the mater.
>
> many thinks that wikinews is outside wikipedia
"way
> of life" so reject
> the project (no editor freedom,...)
>
> They forget that If the creator of wikinews, the
> living WIKI God
> himself, said something about the way people may
> write articles, may
> use a workflow or templates and so on, it's just
> ideas, draft
> framework, draft blue print, ... it's not LAW,
it's
> just a ... 'what do
> you think of that' .
>
> i think, am I wrong Erik ???
> don't think
>
> I think that polish, french, spanish, italian,
...
wikinews
DONT HAVE
TO FOLLOW editorial way from ENGLISH or GERMAN
editions.
-They could find they own ways,
MORE I think that wikinews DONT HAVE TO FOLLOW
editorial way from
Professional NewsWriters, journalists.
-They could find they own ways.
I entirely agree with you Jacques.
However, when you claim that neutrality is not a
universal concept, is purely an american concept,
should not influence the way of writing in a
french
speaking website. And that lastly, the current
NPOV
might even be illegal in France... Sorry, but I
find
this a bit worrying.
While there are rules which should absolutely be
local, other principles should not. I am currently
a
bit perplex.
Ant
Thanks Ant,
-Yes I claim, read some Jack Vance, Ursula Le Guin
(...) Sci-Fi books,
you'll understand that Universality Concept is not
Universal at all,
it's a concept no more.
I disagree. The concept of neutrality first come from
people and how they are 1) able to perceive what is
happening around them, 2) adopt an attitude which
makes them able to distinguish a fact from an opinion
and 3) be able to report facts as facts and opinions
as opinions; it is totally unrelated to a country or
to a nationality.
... my view : I'll always remember this girl blocked under tree during
a flood in South America,
but it's just to argue, as I understand and try in my contribution in
wikinews to do be RIGHT more than NEUTRAL.
opinions and facts changes always by country and education level.
even the words used to speak of events change.
-> My previous work was about interactive knowledge building ... ;)
remember : It's the winner who writes History.
many historical facts in one country are lies for others - i have a big
list - thanks the Cold War. (Cuba Crisis, Vietnam warstarting, El
Chile, Algeria War,,...)
-yes, NPOV is not so legal in France, but
don't
worry.
I do not worry about this. Wikinews is not a french
project from France. It is not written by french from
France, for french from France; It is a project in
french language.
i agree, but some could argue ...
-Each one is responsible in France (more or less
ok)
As long as we stick to the current neutrality rules, I
doubt much our government would ever dare declaring us
illegal.
yes, but i remember how "-e-government" begun in France ... sad story.
For example : Nazi party is ILLEGAL in France,
as
well supporting this
kind of ideas, its not the case in the USA (first
Amendment), and so
on...
You have not understood what neutrality is about I
think. Neutrality is not supporting the Nazi party, it
is not supporting this kind of idea, neutrality is
just saying what the Nazi party is (or was), what the
Nazi party plateform was, to explain who is a
supporter this party, who is involved in this party,
how, and if necessary, to cite some of the words said
by someone belonging to this party.
I think none of this is illegal in France. It is
illegal to promote these ideas, but it is not
forbidden to talk about it in an unbaised way.
In comparison (since it was mentionned that french
Wikinews could be similar to Indymedia), Indymedia
supports certain ideas. I do not think Wikinews should
do that.
i agree (more or less) - as "a free accessible encyclopedia" is a
progressist idea, not a conservative idea in any country.
I don't think that a Human Being could be neutral. We are all driven by
our specific education, fear and likeness
an extrem example : why pornography is forbiden into commons.wikipedia
??? it's NOT NEUTRAL !
an extrem exemple : why bomb making instruction should be forbidden ?
others exemple could be found.
Even Human Right is not neutral at all
If you begin to think : "If I show this painting , speak of that
subject, i'll hurt this category of people, this country or this
religion" . And so i do not show, speak or write and change my mind,
it's not right or neutral.
The worst in fact in france is about copyright
and
the stuff author
rights... , but you already know i hope
It's a problem for all wiki sub-domain: so for
wikinews:fr it is states
that all the writing is PUBLIC DOMAIN.
This is absolutely NOT the reason why fr wikinews is
currently in public domain.
explain? i do not see other ways with the French law.
... other wise you need a contract, something
writen
that the author
leave all his (her) rights upon the 'work'.
There is somehow such a contract with wikipedians, who
agree to release their work under a free licence. It
does not mean they leave ALL their rights.
Under public domain, they do.
not really in France : there''s 2 kind of right :
- one : Usage right often with money
-second : the Moral Right
the Moral Right could NEVER be alienated by any way.
the Usage right could be given freely with resignation (and 75 years
after the death of the author in France, no end in Mexico if i am
right)
(it's complexe when money(or possible virtual
futur
value) is involved
. you know what I mean, could kill
friendship,familly and love...),
Frankly, no, I do not see what it is killing.
i hope you never fight your brother or your sister because you
inherit something she (or he) wants...
When something get value, some people change , a kind of gold-fever.
french government wants it's share
too...(taxes,...)
and when it's FREE
no taxes !
Sorry, but this does not make much sense to me. Could
you elaborate ?
In France when you sell/rent something you should do this a fair,
normal price otherwise you could have problems. (it's off-topic i
think).
One last thing, all this arging is to test point of view of people of
course, no more, it's not to fire the list.
It's difficulte to create a good wikinews as there's NO real exemple
of true neutral news in the Real Reality...
but as sadly people micmics 'professionals' journalists. difficult
tasks.
:)
Jacques