I am going to have to agree with the doll people about the current state of wiki... in
fact when I have made my three months and 1000 edits and I become an admin, I will be an
admin for the little people... why bother with all of the political crap... if it seems
like someone is abusing their power, I will do everything in my power to stop it all the
while giving the little people like the doll specialists a fair shake.
-----Original Message-----
From: wikien-l-bounces(a)Wikipedia.org [mailto:wikien-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of
wikien-l-request(a)Wikipedia.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 9:14 AM
To: wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org
Subject: WikiEN-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 100
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: How to bring back people who don't want to bother? (Rob Smith)
2. Re: How to bring back people who don't want to bother?
(David Gerard)
3. Re: How to bring back people who don't want to bother?
(David Gerard)
4. IP Blocks (Jason Gazeley)
5. Re: How to bring back people who don't want to bother?
(Arkady Rose)
6. Re: Re: How to bring back people who don't want to bother?
(Rob Smith)
7. static html dump script for wikipedia (Mikko Virtaperko)
8. Re: How to bring back people who don't want to bother?
(Snowspinner)
9. Re: IP Blocks (David Gerard)
10. Re: How to bring back people who don't want to bother? (geni)
11. Re: Fwd: 6 Free Offers - Clearance - Extended until 31st
January (David Gerard)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:28:59 -0700
From: Rob Smith <nobs03(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] How to bring back people who don't want to
bother?
To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org>
Message-ID:
<52a8cf060601110728l1529e852s5e8b09de63d807e4(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Take from a user victimized by the concerted efforts of sockpuppet trolls
given licence to run rampant throughout Wikipedia: Reputation is everything.
Nobs01
On 1/11/06, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:
" that's part of our public image now."
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:43:45 +0000
From: David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com>
Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: How to bring back people who don't want to
bother?
To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org>rg>, Jimmy Wales
<jwales(a)wikia.com>
Cc: Arkady Rose <arkady.rose(a)gmail.com>
Message-ID:
<fbad4e140601110743j19081ae9v6d19a37bb37c4314(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Justin Cormack wrote:
There are other reasons to create non wikipedia wikis
too.
Yes, but in this case it's essentially the same sort of thing as a
specialist area in Wikipedia - they're specifically not wanting to
bother because AFD is *officially* an ignorantocracy now.
Encourage them to use a compatible license, and
encourage them
to use commons for media.
At least the first, certainly!
Whats the field?
Doll collectors, as I said. Significant hobby economically, these
things go for hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars ... see
http://www.denofangels.com/ and [[Super Dollfie]] (one of the most
popular examples).
You can argue that Wikipedia can live without them. And of course it
can. But having a (deserved IMO) reputation for stupidity making
people from specialist fields not even want to bother with Wikipedia
is surely NOT a good thing for us. At all.
- d.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:48:28 +0000
From: David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com>
Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: How to bring back people who don't want to
bother?
To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org>
Message-ID:
<fbad4e140601110748wae3f3d5gc72d1e6ef6b42aed(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Nobs01 wrote:
Take from a user victimized by the concerted efforts of
sockpuppet trolls
given licence to run rampant throughout Wikipedia: Reputation is everything.
You were banned for personal attacks and placed on probation after
that for disruption:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Nobs01_and_…
Oddly enough, cases like yours are not what I was talking about.
- d.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:01:36 +0000
From: "Jason Gazeley" <burwellian(a)hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: [WikiEN-l] IP Blocks
To: wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org
Message-ID: <BAY15-F33E3235B548DB109BDCB183240(a)phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Is there any way to block IP's yet allow logged in users to edit from that
IP? My college's IP got blocked this morning due to Vandalism. I was just
about to revert some other vandalism at lunch when I got the blocked notice.
Checking the IP's edit history, a couple of the vandalism edits have still
not been reverted. The pages on "Proponent" and "United States Department
for Transportation" are still vandalised but being blocked I can not revert.
Thanks
Burwellian
_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
7.5 today!
http://messenger.msn.co.uk
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:02:01 +0000
From: Arkady Rose <arkady.rose(a)gmail.com>
Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: How to bring back people who don't want to
bother?
To: David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com>
Cc: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org>
Message-ID: <43C52BF9.5020500(a)gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
David Gerard wrote:
>
Whats the field?
>>
>>
>
>
>Doll collectors, as I said. Significant hobby economically, these
>things go for hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars ... see
>http://www.denofangels.com/ and [[Super Dollfie]] (one of the most
>popular examples).
>
>
Specifically, Asian Ball-Jointed Dolls, as opposed to porcelain or any
other types of dolls. They have only been around about 10 years, but
already they have gained so rapidly in popularity that a recent example
of a limited-edition doll sold on eBay for $5100.
The sort of information likely to be put into an ABJD wiki is going to
be histories of the companies producing the dolls, details of all the
different resin types and head molds produced, details of the most
widely-acclaimed face-up artists (people who paint the faces) and
customisers, and sections with how-tos on customisation and modding etc.
- not the sort of thing for Wikipedia, perhaps. But the fact remains
that basically the doll community has seen how specialists in other
fields have been treated by the rabid AfD morons who assume that because
*they've* not heard of something it must be not noteable and promptly
delete, and quite frankly they fail to see why they should even bother
touching the doll-related articles in WP when instead they can just
create their own wiki, free of the current poisonous WP politics and
petty instruction-creep that at present seems, quite frankly, endemic
throughout WP at present and incidentally is the main reason I've pretty
much gone on indefinite hiatus from both editing and from wikien-l
personally.
-a
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:05:29 -0700
From: Rob Smith <nobs03(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: How to bring back people who don't want to
bother?
To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org>
Message-ID: <52a8cf060601110805if617c13m54f468bb40b81e(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Enduring six months of personal attacks, responding to it once during an
ArbCom Hearing, and being banned for a year, while those who trashed me and
smeared me as being "banned for personal attacks" are given license to do it
again. This why the image and reputation of Wikipedia, and the image and
reputation of editors contributing in good faith is everything.
nobs
On 1/11/06, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Nobs01 wrote:
Take it from a user victimized by the concerted
efforts of sockpuppet
trolls
given licence to run rampant throughout Wikipedia:
Reputation is
everything.
You were banned for personal attacks and placed on probation after
that for disruption:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Nobs01_and_…
Oddly enough, cases like yours are not what I was talking about.
- d.
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To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:39:55 +0200
From: Mikko Virtaperko <mikko(a)virtaperko.fi>
Subject: [WikiEN-l] static html dump script for wikipedia
To: wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org
Message-ID: <43C4C45B.9010301(a)virtaperko.fi>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi, I wrote PHP script to dump Wikipedia:
http://mvp.jesusterror.com/wiki.html
It will create static html from defined number of Wikipedia pages. NOTE:
You must have Wikipedia installed locally to do this.
If anyone is interested I'm happy to answer any questions or improve the
program.
Mikko Virtaperko
mikko ät virtaperko fi
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:08:18 -0500
From: Snowspinner <Snowspinner(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] How to bring back people who don't want to
bother?
To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org>
Message-ID: <722597B2-06F0-49CC-A46F-1535AD80F1CA(a)gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
I think a very good first step would be to find a specialist wiki or
two that are GFDL (Whether forks like Comixpedia or not) and copy
them in. It shows humility, improves our project, and directly
addresses the issue.
I'd say Memory Alpha, but they're CC. Comixpedia would be too
controversial right now, this doll
wiki is too new. Any other ideas?
-Phil
On Jan 11, 2006, at 9:57 AM, David Gerard wrote:
There's a specialist topic that's about to
create its own wiki. In
discussion on a board, one person said "Why not just use Wikipedia?
What you're describing is identical." Another responded with: "No,
some 15 year old moron will mark it for deletion just because they
know nothing about it."
So that's part of our public image now. Well done alienating webcomics
authors, i.e. creators of memes and popular culture on the net.
Not to mention the way the webcomics AC case ended: AFD trolls now
have the all-clear to work actively to alienate actual experts,
because the self-professed ignorant are now *officially* to be
considered equal to those who have an actual bloody clue.
I was amazed knowledge of it had spread so far. Jimbo, you heard about
this example at the recent UK Wikimedia meet (the doll collectors) -
this was actually an independent example from the same field.
Experts from fields that actually haven't been alienated literally
don't think it's worth bothering to try writing in Wikipedia any more.
Is there anything we can do to rehabilitate Wikipedia's image in the
outside world?
(yes, geni, I know you're happy to be rid of annoying specialist
experts)
- d.
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:09:56 +0000
From: David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] IP Blocks
To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org>rg>,
burwellian(a)hotmail.co.uk
Message-ID:
<fbad4e140601110809x39769ee5i12fda2c9d36f2e7b(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Jason Gazeley wrote:
Is there any way to block IP's yet allow logged in
users to edit from that
IP? My college's IP got blocked this morning due to Vandalism. I was just
about to revert some other vandalism at lunch when I got the blocked notice.
MediaWiki bug 550:
http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=550
At present it's got a few suggested patches, it's working out what's
the best one to implement in terms of its social effects.
(cc to wikitech-l - what's the current developers' view on a good
solution to 550? Are we anywhere near having one implemented?)
As for the block itself, that's obviously collateral damage, and if
you can tell us the IP it should be promptly unblocked. What was the
text of the block message?
- d.
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:10:06 +0000
From: geni <geniice(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] How to bring back people who don't want to
bother?
To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org>
Message-ID:
<f80608430601110810s375fd077k3421b7cb72a88c91(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On 1/11/06, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:
There's a specialist topic that's about to
create its own wiki. In
discussion on a board, one person said "Why not just use Wikipedia?
What you're describing is identical." Another responded with: "No,
some 15 year old moron will mark it for deletion just because they
know nothing about it."
Unlikely. The problem is the people who do know a little about it.
People don't tend to delete the maths stuff because they don't
understand it at all. People do understand webcomics a little with the
result that they feel they know enough to list them on afd.
So that's part of our public image now. Well done
alienating webcomics
authors, i.e. creators of memes and popular culture on the net.
Evidence that there is in fact a link here? Generaly if you look at
the spred of info about wikipedia across weforums webcomic are not
mentioned.
Not to mention the way the webcomics AC case ended:
AFD trolls now
have the all-clear to work actively to alienate actual experts,
because the self-professed ignorant are now *officially* to be
considered equal to those who have an actual bloody clue.
I was amazed knowledge of it had spread so far. Jimbo, you heard about
this example at the recent UK Wikimedia meet (the doll collectors) -
this was actually an independent example from the same field.
Why? Pretty much any forum on the web you go to has at least one
thread on wikipedia these days. We can't hide stuff any more.
Experts from fields that actually haven't been
alienated literally
don't think it's worth bothering to try writing in Wikipedia any more.
Is there anything we can do to rehabilitate Wikipedia's image in the
outside world?
Without changeing it's fundimental structure? Not really. If you are
going to write about areas of popular culture there are going to be
other people around and they are sometimes going to dissagree with
you.
(yes, geni, I know you're happy to be rid of
annoying specialist experts)
No I'd accept them also decideing not be anoying.
--
geni
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:14:02 +0000
From: David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com>
Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Fwd: 6 Free Offers - Clearance - Extended
until 31st January
To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org>rg>, Jimmy Wales
<jwales(a)wikia.com>
Cc: Arkady Rose <arkady.rose(a)gmail.com>
Message-ID:
<fbad4e140601110814v7aa76150p7e7a06dc791513dd(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I asked Arkady if there was a public link to the discussion. She said:
You have to be a member of DoA to read most of the
threads, so no - it's
not publically viewable. However from a quick glance through the
discussion as it stands, the overwhelming consensus is "fuck WP" - only
more polite than that. They don't want to get involved with the
insidious bureaucracy and delete-happy morons, and frankly I don't blame
them. They want to share their enjoyment of dolls, not get caught up in
stupid edit-wars with Cat Piss Men.
And you can quote me on that, too.
Note, by the way, that this field has NOT yet been through the AFD
grinder that schools and webcomics have been through - rather, they're
another group who have seen the rubbish going on there and decided
"bugger that."
Who will be next? Who will be next that we don't hear about until well
after the event?
Tell me that's not AFD culture being directly damaging to Wikipedia,
now and for the future.
The AC has resoundingly failed to deal with the issue. (And I
apologise myself for being marked away at the time.) It needs dealing
with. Who can or will do something about it that will stick?
- d.
------------------------------
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