[WikiEN-l] VFU is utterly beyond hope

Mon Oct 17 02:44:24 UTC 2005

G'day Tony,

> On 10/16/05, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:
> VFU's (why isn't that
> 
>>AFU?) main function should be makeing sure closeing admins are
>>following procedure and that people are not abuseing speedies.
> 
> Well actually a bad speedy can be remedied by any admin.
> 
> So the only function of VFU is to undelete articles that have been
> processed properly but shouldn't have been deleted even so.

Worl, I'd say a bunch of delete votes with no argument, attached to a 
subpage where the nominator made no argument, but where the admin 
deleted, counts as "not processed properly".  Surely VfU has something 
to say there?

> Where did this idea that we needed to check up on admins who failed to
> delete come from?

That's not what he said.  Why would VfU be checking up on admins who 
*fail* to delete?

> About 25-30% of all nominations to AfD fail to result in deletion.
> 
> Get over it.
> 
> VFU's function is not to deal with those problems.  Its function is to
> look at the articles deleted and see if they were, in fact, actually
> good articles.
> 
> And undelete them!

Well, erm, we must be careful to see that VfU doesn't become AfD part 2. 
  If new information comes to light, if the deletion arguments were 
unworthy, if the admin closed incorrectly ... any more?  I don't recall 
seeing "If Tony Sidaway, Ray Saintonge and SPUI wish to redress the 
balance against those lousy deletionists" on the VfU guidelines, but 
then, I admit that I'm not a regular there, and on a Wiki these things 
can change bloody quickly.

> Why doesn't it do its job?

You've already said why, repeatedly.  Somewhere along the way it stopped 
being a last-gasp "hang on we missed something" effort and became an 
appeals court.  "Dost thou have a point of law to make?  Then begone!"

We're slowly building our own government to mirror that of the Real 
World, at least in Western Common Law countries.  We're unconsciously 
trying to build "courts" of different jurisdiction to judge articles and 
users, and --- you'll laugh when I tell you this --- even an effort like 
Esperanza was meant to come with a free top-heavy parliament!

Some of y'all complain of "instruction creep".  I think the big problem 
with instruction creep is not, well, creeping instruction, but that 
we're trying to mirror real-world institutions e'en when they be 
entirely inappropriate for us.  If no-one else objects, I think I'll add 
to the "community" section of WP:NOT --- "Wikipedia is NOT the real world."

-- 
Mark Gallagher
"What?  I can't hear you, I've got a banana on my head!"
- Danger Mouse

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