[WikiEN-l] NPOV and alleged phenomenon

Thu Dec 16 18:54:51 UTC 2004

Ec wrote:
> There are probably ways in which this whole class of
> articles can be approached more civilly.  A short opening
> paragraph can define the subject.  There is no need to
> say that anything is "alleged" there unless you are
> disputing the definition itself.  A definition is not
> a  falsifiable statements.

This is incorrect. Sometimes a definition *is* a
falsifiable statement.  For example, someone could write
"ESP is the method by which a human can do such-and-such." 
The very definition presumes that ESP exists, which itself
is controversial.  No one has ever shown that any such
phenomenon exists.  The same is true for telepathy,
telekinesis, pyrokinesis, and dozens of other alleged
phenomenon.

One is obligated by our NPOV policy to say something like
"ESP is alleged to be the method by which..."  because no
one can even show that ESP (or any of these other
phenomenon.)  

We can of course say that "Believers in ESP believe that
ESP has been proven to exist."

> One well known contributor with a reputation for a
> confrontational style 

Ec, stop with the ad homenin remarks.  It is unprofessional
to belittle my argument by attacking my reputation. It is
also unprofessional to refuse to use my name.  No one
mistreats you in this fashion; do not do this to others.

Ec then claims:
> sought to confound ESP with alien abduction, by
> suggesting that an abductee might claim that the aliens
> would use ESP to communicate with him.  One thing to
> remember is that it is quite normal for people to 
> believe in one but not the other.  In that case a
> believer in one would  find it insulting to be associated
> with a belief in the other. 

Ex, you are making a strawhorse argument.  You are trying
to deligitimize my basic argument by focusing on one
example sentence that doesn't even exist in any article!

In any case, many studies have proven that believers in UFO
abductions also generally believe in ESP. This is not an
"insult".  Perhaps it makes you uncomfortable to ackowledge
the relationship between these beliefs, but the
relationship is firmly established, even if you find it
embarassing.

Robert (RK)

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