[WikiEN-l] The Times They are a'Changin'

Fri Oct 3 06:22:52 UTC 2003

Note:Forgive me if this is a little out of date-- just
catching up.

--- Jimmy Wales <jwales at joey.bomis.com> wrote:
> ...we can all just talk about how to best
> avoid this sort of thing in the future.

Well for starters, how about if you, Jimbo. and you,
Ed, don't pamper and coddle people "like" him.  If
there is anything practical to learning about "this
sort of thing."  I would someday when the breezes
permit, like an explanation as to why you let it get
this far.  Perhaps you think as Abe does-- that
'extremist points of view are necessary to Wikipedia,'
even if they are held by people who think of a comment
on their talk page as "vandalism."  

Jim, you've put your foot down before-- why is it that
you merely tapped your foot with RK?  At least this is
my perception of it.  As I recall there have been
around 3 users banned in connection with fights with
RK.  This raised to me the issue of an "imbalance,"
and as I suggested to you in private-- this is perhaps
more an issue of your *confusion over the "ethnic
issues",  or lack of time for detail, rather than
anything overtly POV (as others here have suggested.

Ed: I told you on your talk page that I would support
you in a role where you could act as a formal
moderator.  I am still somewhat suspect of you, given
your current cotton-glove defensism for RK.  This
suspicion comes from your  previous statement (perhaps
in haste) that your opinion on matters Israel, are not
your own but rather in deference to the opinions of
your religious leadership.  I think perhaps you've had
time to reflect on this since I first asked, and
perhaps you have formed an opinion of your own.  With
that said-- I think of you as a uniquely soothing
presence, one which was invaluable the other night in
diffusing the situation with RK.

Bcorr: Your journalistic spirit is yet unmatched on
Wikipedia. Thank you for your work in vindicating me--
where previously RK's accusations saw no meaninful
resistance, and no specific retort could be more
damning than your proof that RK himself tampered with
the text to include a term I would never use.
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-October/006792.html
"Shameful", to quote RK. He here violated God's 9th
commandment -- "thou shalt bear no false witness..." I
consider it entirely forgivable-- as is Edward's lame
attempt to cover it up:
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-October/006794.html

On this whole list thread: Considering the various
forms of coddling: Attacks on Erik's "strange
precedent"; Abe's silly notion that extreme POV is
necessary for NPOV (thank you Angela); and Jimbo and
Ed's (still, or until just hours ago) seem to want to
make gold out of pyrite.

It's was never a problem with his Jewishness--it was
his *low-self esteem, and persecution complex* that
were the real problems all along.  I'm glad you all
now can see it for what it was.  Robert will be in a
prayer or two (like it or not)-- in the hope that he
comes away from this stronger, and finds some peace of
mind.  I hope he can someday soon rediscover his
*faith-- one which perhaps he knew only of its dogmas
and traditions until now.  Faith is much more than
what many think it is. Faith is sustaining, and the
*true path to "it" is not found in any book, or on any
computer screen.

On his ban-- I think *I* ( whether I have any
"authority" or not, Jimbo ) must take a harder line. 
I would like to see "RK" permanently banned from
Wikipedia.   (No, I dont agree with Martin that he
simply "wont be back.")   That said, if  "Robert
Kaiser", after getting down from his self-appointed
fictitional role as 'defender of all things Jewish,'
wishes to return as "Robert,"  I would only be
encouraging.  

Let "RK" be no more.  But if *Robert finally wants to
introduce himself, I for one would like to meet him. 
Jim and Ed, Abe, et al.  I dont mean to be rude--I
simply dont have time here to beat around the burning
bush.

If I may choose this as a final word: 'Shalom,'
~S~

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