[WikiEN-l] This is the English Wikipedia

Wed Jun 11 00:35:43 UTC 2003

Not to minimize what you're saying, but this problem
extends beyond non-native English speakers. Before I
joined Wikipedia as anonymous56789, I had a different
username (which I now can't remember. After that, I
quit wikipedia for a year and then rejoined). Anyway,
I didn't know as much about grammar and spelling back
then, and I was rudely told I didn't know English well
enough (or something like that) to contribute to an
encyclopedia like this. This may have happened to more
kids than me, too.

If you find the subtlties of English daunting (not
that you are unintelligent in any way), you could help
with the simple english wikipedia. It attempts to use
only the 1000 most common words in English to create
an encyclopedia. It still uses the UseMod software,
though.

By the way, why haven't all of the wikis been upgraded
yet?

--- Anthere <anthere6 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> --- Stevertigo <stevertigo at attbi.com> wrote:
> > Robert
> > > Pseudo-academic, pseudo-egalitarian nonsense. 
> > That's the
> > > same kind of talk that has damaged the education
> > of much of
> > > the inner-city youth in America.
> > 
> > Robert, if noone else will say it - I will. Youre
> so
> > full of crap.
> > Thank you very much for listening.
> > 
> > > Frankly, it is also racist in effect. This kind
> of
> > attitude
> > > has created two generations of poorly educated
> > Hispanic and
> > > Black youth in American cities. I couldn't think
> > of a
> > > better plan for the KKK  to promote if they want
> > to keep
> > > racism alive forever.
> > 
> > God, what horrible garbage.
> > 
> > > And frankly, many of our articles are being
> > damaged by
> > > people with good intentions, but who have poor
> > English
> > > reading or writing skills (or both.)
> > 
> > Oh, God, what a crapload.
> > 
> > > In Stevertigo's bizarre universe, it is
> > egalitarian to
> > > encourage this illiteracy, which in the end
> would
> > produce
> > > unreadable articles.  In our universe, we are
> > trying to
> > > ecudate an English speaking audience.
> > 
> > Well, cutting through all of Robert's crap - the
> one
> > VALID point he makes
> > (underneath all the crap, acrimony, etc...) is
> that
> > a common language
> > should'nt go willy nilly in different directions.
> > But it's fucking elitist
> > as tea-sipping lessons to dictate what is "proper"
> > in most contexts -
> > because you personally dont own it - whether it be
> a
> > religion or a language.
> > 
> > Americans and Englishmen are a minority of English
> > speakers. Toby(I think)
> > made a valid point that there is already a page
> > calling attention to pages
> > in need of a rewrite - the problem is that people
> do
> > what they are
> > interested in.
> > (And most pages are in need of a "rewrite" -
> whether
> > its a complete hack
> > job - or a little comma is missing somewhere.)
> > 
> > If people with little teeny tiny sphincters want
> to
> > take it upon themselves
> > to focus like a lynch mob on poor, unsuspecting
> > Bengalis, fine. But dont
> > bitch when I pull the hoods off your heads. Wanna
> > correct the bad English? -
> > DO IT. But dont come here talking about
> instituting
> > ideologies that are
> > fundamentally elitist.
> > 
> > WikiLove be upon you, Kaiser
> > 
> > - Steven MacGrieves
> 
> 
> I would like to add a couple more words to the
> subject
> 
> The word "english-speaking" is misleading. Wikipedia
> is for english-speaking clearly, but here,
> english-speaking does mean any person able to
> understand english, not native english-speaking
> person. In that sense, english wikipedia is for
> english people is true, if it encompass any person
> able to read english. It should not limit itself to
> native english only. You guys should be proud. So
> many
> of us are using your language now. Even when no
> native-english is around, if that is the best for us
> to communicate.
> I agree wikipedia should be properly written. I just
> don't know along which standards, I always failed to
> find a grammar book for your language, as French
> language has. But in any case, the language escaped
> you. English language is not only the language of
> native english. It is also ours. Maybe, is it an
> international english.
> 
> I know quite well I am part of this terminology gap.
> 
> I am fully aware of my limitations. Which is why I
> never participate in writing meta pages on en (which
> I
> do a lot on fr), as I know people are very keen in
> having those very properly written.
> Which is also why I very rarely refactor other
> people
> prose; I add, I sometimes remove, I create mostly.
> This way, I try to avoid people from accusing me of
> "damaging" their work and letting an article in
> poorer
> shape than it was before my input. I basically only
> create because I think "not very good" is better
> than
> "no article" at all.
> 
> I also several times asked other people to review my
> work, and usually people did so very kindly. I must
> say I don't really appreciate that some mention in
> the
> comment box that "obviously this has been written by
> an non-english and needs much work" and then leave
> without doing more than correcting a typo.
> If someone is willing to go through all my major
> contributions to clean up after me, it is all listed
> on my page and old contributions page.
> 
> I know quite well Robert is including me in these
> people who should be elsewhere than here, as he
> suggested a couple of times that I should quit
> wikipedia if not being able to read and express
> myself
> properly in english.
> 
> That is one of the reasons why, I quit trying to do
> anythink on the knowledge article, being aware it
> would risk again being considered vandalism as he
> said
> I was guilty on the gaia articles.
> 
> Now, I have some doubts. I see that he is doing the
> same with the next contributor he is sharing an
> article with. Similarly, while in disagreement with
> him, 
> 
> see
>
http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Knowledge&diff=1017714&oldid=1016720
> 
> He is using the supposed "inability to understand
> and
> speak english" to bully people he does not agree
> with.
> 
> This is so embarassing
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to
> Outlook(TM).
> http://calendar.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com